daviddoria Posted June 5, 2013 Report Share Posted June 5, 2013 I've seen a few posts here about this and the TWW video about it. I've seen lots of recommendations for the West System epoxy, but I am concerned with the "amber hue" - I'd really rather it be clear. I read some places that 105 used with the 207 hardener will dry clear, but other places that it still isn't really all that clear. Can anyone confirm or deny this? Also, if the West System will dry clear, I don't see anything smaller than the gallon/quart sets? Is there another brand that I can get something much smaller? I know it will last for years, but I really will never need this much! Thanks, David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoboMonk Posted June 6, 2013 Report Share Posted June 6, 2013 I've seen a few posts here about this and the TWW video about it. I've seen lots of recommendations for the West System epoxy, but I am concerned with the "amber hue" - I'd really rather it be clear. I read some places that 105 used with the 207 hardener will dry clear, but other places that it still isn't really all that clear. Can anyone confirm or deny this? Also, if the West System will dry clear, I don't see anything smaller than the gallon/quart sets? Is there another brand that I can get something much smaller? I know it will last for years, but I really will never need this much! Thanks, David Try the Gorilla brand epoxy. --- very clear --- small size packaging --- easy to find in stores I too only use epoxy in small amounts, mainly for fixing knots and repairing big cracks in wood. Blessings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted June 6, 2013 Report Share Posted June 6, 2013 207 dries pretty darn clear. As clear as CA -- I'm not sure. I'll put both on a glass plate today and let you know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CessnaPilotBarry Posted June 6, 2013 Report Share Posted June 6, 2013 While you're making your clear test item, do a second sample with a dot of black artist's oil or acrylic paint mixed in... I've found many situations where black epoxy looks extremely natural once the item is fully finished. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted June 6, 2013 Report Share Posted June 6, 2013 ==> While you're making your clear test item, do a second sample with a dot of black artist's oil or acrylic paint mixed in... ==> I've found many situations where black epoxy looks extremely natural once the item is fully finished What am I, a testing lab? I just put the dabs on -- i'll post a photo after curing -- about 24hrs. I added a dab of #0.5ct superblonde, #2.0ct superblonde, CA and 205 for comparison. Plane black can look good -- I actually use West System' Black additive when gluing-up ebony plugs... It gives a 'jet black' that approximates the hue and sheen of sanded/finished ebony. For knots, I usually use some dark walnut transtint + a little west systems black to avoid the 'jet black' look -- it can be a bit artificial in knots, spalting, etc -- so I end-up with a very very dark brown which tends to look a bit more natural. I also mix-in sanding dust from the stick so that the void in the knot is not 'too uniform'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CessnaPilotBarry Posted June 6, 2013 Report Share Posted June 6, 2013 What am I, a testing lab? You sure are! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted June 7, 2013 Report Share Posted June 7, 2013 Here are the 207 clarity results… Clarity Order: CA slightly more clear than 207 #0.5ct SB #2.0ct SB #0.5ct Amber tied with 205 Test conditions: Glass plate, 1/2” thick 2” diameter dabs left to naturally level-out I did not ‘take-care’ when mixing expoy -- I wanted trapped air bubbles in the initial mix to see how many of the initial bubbles precipitated-out Dried 24hrs Photographed against a photo-infinity background (photographic white, matte texture) Focus point is the surface texture of the infinity background (approx 1' behind the glue dab). Because of Depth of Focus(DOF), the surface of the dabs will be blurry -- I'm testing for light transmission, tint, etc... So a blurry image is fine... EOS 5DMkiii, dual-strobe macro flash setup – 100mm Canon EOS macro lens Slight underexposure to prevent white-on-white image -- again exposure isn't really that important as long as each sample has same exposure to allow comparison of light transmission. Same exposure on all captures to illustrate light loss through the test sample. RAW capture, no color correction, no exposure correction -- just the cropped RAW capture. Observations: Sorry about the white-on-white photographs. I doubt they will translate to the web very well. The captures are 22MP each, so can’t even eMail them… You will notice the loss of light transmission as we move away from CA. The CA has almost perfect light transmission, but it's captured slightly underexposed to allow a little contrast. Loss of light transmission: CA and 207 show little light loss... 205 and Amber shellac the most -- these results were expected. The texture you see is the underlying matte finish of the infinity background -- shot through the finish, glass and 1' to the background... focus point is the background. Notice -- the CA and 207 are the only images where you can see the background matte -- the CA clearly shows the matte texture. Even the very thin shellac obscures the matte texture... After 24hrs, CA did not dry as a dab, just the film in contact the glass. So obviously not a gap-filler, but we knew that… The 207 dried about as clear as the CA, but retained some pin-sized trapped air-bubbles. 205 dried a distinct amber and it sets more quickly than 207 – so more trapped air-bubbles. You can clearly read newsprint through the CA. The 207 can read newsprint, but the few trapped air-bubbles are annoying. The slight scratches you see in the CA image are on the back of the glass plate as seen though the 1/2" glass and CA sample. The CA is the only sample where you see scratches on the back of the plate... Unanticipated result: CA w/ accelerator off-gasses rather dramatically… The glass around the CA dab shows a petroleum dispersion halo similar to a few drops of gas on a driveway when it gets wet… But more interesting, the CA has 207 dabs on either side of it and the off-gassing of the CA clearly interferes with curing of the 207… I mixed 207 with West Systems black pigment and you can see the surface deformity and discoloration caused by the CA (see photo). The CA w/ accelerator is more volatile than I realized. I don't have the ability to test epoxy, so don't know what structural effect (if any) the off gassing has on epoxy. CA interfering with the 207 cure -- notice multi-color halo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpt life Posted June 7, 2013 Report Share Posted June 7, 2013 Thanks for such a detailed and thorough report. Much appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan S Posted June 7, 2013 Report Share Posted June 7, 2013 Try System Three epoxy, they are a big competitor of West System. Having used both brands as well as some others, I can say I like System Three better than West System.if your filling small to medium size knots you can use the 15 minute epoxy, it's one of the clearest epoxies I've seen on the market that isn't a top coat.http://www.systemthree.com/store/pc/Quick-Cure-15-1-2-Pint-Kit-25p58.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daviddoria Posted June 15, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2013 Wow, those are very very clear. I was thinking it was going to be amber for some reason. I got some System Three T88 (not the 15 minute version) just because it was so much cheaper than the West System - I'll see how it turns out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuilderBill Posted June 20, 2013 Report Share Posted June 20, 2013 ****************** What am I, a testing lab? ****************** If the shoe fits........ Looks like you do a pretty good job at it. Thanks for taking the time. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom King Posted June 21, 2013 Report Share Posted June 21, 2013 Working on old houses, and boats sometimes, I always have the 5 gal. West System jugs on hand. I never tried System Three, simply because the West stuff and I are old friends, and I know what it will do. While working on gold clubs, I've become spoiled to the two part cartridges that go in a gun, primarily for use with mixing nozzles. 3m DP100 is pretty clear, The rear fender on my dually, the nose on the John Deere, and the fuel tank on my generator are all held together with it. You can run a really small bead with the mixing nozzle and gun. For small jobs, the little Locktite epoxy package with two mixing nozzles is very handy and the clearest epoxy I know of. You can find it in Lowes, Home Depot, or Ace. I also have found that it sticks athletic shoe soles back on better than ShoeGoo. For black epoxy, any of the golf epoxies work fine. If you need something that breaks down from a lower heat than regular epoxy, 3m DP810 works well, but is still plenty strong. Some of the 3m varieties come in different colors. For thinning you can thin up to about 10 percent with Xylene if you need to. For easy cleanup, Golfworks sells a container of wipes that use some solvent other than acetone, and are very handy to have. Store the container in a ziplock bag that you squeeze all the air out of so it will have a longer shelf life. Some stuff you don't want to use acetone on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted June 21, 2013 Report Share Posted June 21, 2013 ==> 5 gal. West System and I thought I used a lot of glue -- I only buy it in size 'B' 5:1 (gal/quart)... and that lasts me about six months.... What's the 5-gal mix -- size 'C' 5:1? -- about $400 for the resin and $160 for the hardener? ==> two part cartridges that go in a gun I used West Systems pre-loaded mixing cartridge on a boat repair --- nice product and quite handy, but you pay for the convenience over their u-fill cartridges -- maybe double... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom King Posted June 23, 2013 Report Share Posted June 23, 2013 Something like that. I haven't bought any for a while. I have about a half gallon left in the bottom of the big jug. I think I bought it in 2007 for an old house I was working on, but fixed a Hobie Cat with it last weekend, so it does have good shelf life. One of the hardener pumps played out, so I did have to get another one of those a year or so ago. The little two part cartridges are called "duo-cartridges". With the mixing nozzles, you can run out a 1/32" bead if you want to. The nozzles are about a buck a piece for the guns, and are disposed of after one use. The guns have different plungers for using different adhesives with different mixing ratios. They are at a premium, with most of the 3M varieties 16 to 20 bucks each for 50ml, but it is good stuff if you need something for a specific purpose. They have more than paid for themselves though. After replacing one plastic nose piece on my 1984 70hp John Deere for 90 bucks, the next time something rolled out of the bucket and broke the nose, I glued it back together with DP100, and the 10 foot rule works just fine on it-same for the one rear fender on the dually. Here's a link to a gun: http://www.golfworks.com/product.asp_Q_pn_E_VB1005_A_cn_E_33 That same place also sells nozzles, and all sorts of epoxy with various specifications. For instance, if I'm trying different shafts in a driver, I'll use DP810 because it breaks down with heat way before the epoxy in the graphite shaft does, so it allows much safer pulling of heads to change shafts, but is still plenty strong. http://www.skygeek.com/3m-021200-22648-adhesive-epoxy-clr-1-7-oz-3m-sw-dp100.html?utm_source=googlebase&utm_medium=shoppingengine&utm_content=3m-021200-22648-adhesive-epoxy-clr-1-7-oz-3m-sw-dp100&utm_campaign=froogle&gclid=CNzv85rZ-rcCFZSe4AodQWoAGg http://www.skygeek.com/3m-021200-31310-adhesive-acrylic-tan-1-7-oz-3m-sw-dp810-duo-pak.html comes in black too, but this was the first link I found Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.