bclark Posted July 27, 2013 Report Share Posted July 27, 2013 I am interested in building a new front entry door and I could use some advice. I spoke with a person at my local wood supply store and was told "it is just like building a really big kitchen cabinet door" and the difference being that I would need to put in some dowells where the rails meet the stiles to strengthen the joint. Does anyone know if using Festool's Domino would do the job or would it be better to go with a mortise an tennon? Also does anyone know of any articles or references available on door construction? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G S Haydon Posted July 27, 2013 Report Share Posted July 27, 2013 bclark, Excellent, a Joinery post . If this is a quality external door project dominos and dowels would not be my first choice at all. Mortice and Tenon is the way to go for a quality job. What style of door do you want to make and what kinda size we talking? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatworks Today Posted July 27, 2013 Report Share Posted July 27, 2013 +1 on M&T joinery. I'd use epoxy for the glue-up as well 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G S Haydon Posted July 28, 2013 Report Share Posted July 28, 2013 Depending on the style, timber and location we nearly always use wedged M&T glued D4 PVA with no issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mar10 Posted July 28, 2013 Report Share Posted July 28, 2013 Hi bclark FWW August 1988 # 71 “ Making Period Doors “ also available on their website . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdwerker Posted July 28, 2013 Report Share Posted July 28, 2013 The new bigger Domino is mortice and tenon joinery of a size to do exterior doors ! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grain Guy Posted July 28, 2013 Report Share Posted July 28, 2013 Mortice and tenon. The bottom rail should be 11" or so wide, which will need a split tenon with a haunch between the two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Bienlein Posted July 28, 2013 Report Share Posted July 28, 2013 Something like this for the bottom rail tenons. And the matching mortises. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G S Haydon Posted July 28, 2013 Report Share Posted July 28, 2013 Alan, I'm delighted to see some M&T action. Doweled doors and loose tenons . I guess whatever works but M&T has been proven for hundreds of years in this context. It would, in my opinion be cheaper and easier to make M&T too. Don't turn to the Dark Side http://www.finewoodworking.com/how-to/article/making-full-sized-doors.aspx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Bienlein Posted July 28, 2013 Report Share Posted July 28, 2013 Alan, I'm delighted to see some M&T action. Doweled doors and loose tenons . I guess whatever works but M&T has been proven for hundreds of years in this context. It would, in my opinion be cheaper and easier to make M&T too. Don't turn to the Dark Side http://www.finewoodworking.com/how-to/article/making-full-sized-doors.aspx Thank you very much I appreciate that. The door parts in the picture were for new doors that I made to replace the other doors that failed that were made with loose tenon joinery. Some pics of the doors I just made and installed. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G S Haydon Posted July 28, 2013 Report Share Posted July 28, 2013 Alan, at the risk of looking a fool is that Accoya? If it's not Accoya looks just like that. Great Job BTW, the shoulders and door gaps are sweet. An interesting point to observe is that you glazing beads are on the inside, we almost exclusively have them on the out side face. A wedged M&T is soooooo strong, that mechanical action of wedging combined with glue is a win win. A loose tenon or dowel is only about the glue (from what I can see). For light weight doors I'm sure its OK but high quality exterior joinery, no thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Bienlein Posted July 28, 2013 Report Share Posted July 28, 2013 Yes it is acoya. The jambs are made from acoya alder. Yes they are on the outside. They were looking for a clean look from the exterior. The wood is a pleasure to work with as it stays straight no matter how you cut it. Since the OP has asked about entry doors I'll post a few more pics for him. Here are is the jamb stock for the doors. I cut these on my contractor table saw. My home made hinge mortising jig. I can cut all three mortises at the same time and it's reversable so you can use it on the jamb. Thats what the 1/8" notch is for at the end. You line up the door with the notch and for the jamb you line it up at the end of the jig. The integral astragal with weather stripping and flush bolt. We reused what hardware we could to help keep cost down. I prefer the flip lever flush bolts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Bienlein Posted July 28, 2013 Report Share Posted July 28, 2013 Here is a picture of the new threshold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G S Haydon Posted July 28, 2013 Report Share Posted July 28, 2013 Ahh timber recognition skills . Accoya certainly is very stable, a little pricey but when you factor in the minimal waste and amazing durability it starts to look very good value. Our version is Radiata Pine rather than your Alder. On another point, man that flush bolt job on the meeting stiles is tight . Right now for another one, is that white seal an aquamac 89? We normally run an aquamac 21 in the edge of the frame rebate rather than the upstand so it wipes the edge of the door rather than you 89 which compresses. Sweet pics Alan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Bienlein Posted July 28, 2013 Report Share Posted July 28, 2013 The weather stripping I used is pretty much standard down here in Texas other than the brass weather stripping in very high end homes. This type is readily available if he ever needs to replace it for any reason. The only thing I'm not to fond of with the acoya is it creates a very fine almost talc like dust that just sticks to everything. I sure hope the OP chimes back in. Don't want this to seem like a hijack of his thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G S Haydon Posted July 28, 2013 Report Share Posted July 28, 2013 Agreed, come back OP. +1 on the accoya dust, it's very static. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom King Posted July 29, 2013 Report Share Posted July 29, 2013 Resource Conservation Technology for weather stripping. Ball bearing hinges for an entry door. http://www.smithandcompany.org/mwp/ Finish any panels before assembly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted July 30, 2013 Report Share Posted July 30, 2013 Dowel it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G S Haydon Posted July 30, 2013 Report Share Posted July 30, 2013 Dowel it. If there was a dislike button I would press it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted July 30, 2013 Report Share Posted July 30, 2013 If there was a dislike button I would press it Your funny I worked in a door and mill work company for 12 years we probably shipped over hundred thousand doors a year. The company is now 100 years old and still produces great solid wood doors with dowels. Today its all cnc but we used to do wedge dowels by hand. Wedge dowel doors will last as long as ANY mortise and tenon man door. Wedge dowels were patented back in I think 1900 and are still one of the strongest door assembly methods. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G S Haydon Posted July 30, 2013 Report Share Posted July 30, 2013 Wedged dowels may well be one of the strongest methods and appropriate for external doors but IMO and experience it's not the strongest or the best. "Wedge dowel doors will last as long as ANY mortise and tenon man door" If its only been used on external doors since 1900 it's still a baby. M&T construction on quality external joinery was and still is the gold standard Agree to disagree? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted July 30, 2013 Report Share Posted July 30, 2013 Wedged dowels may well be one of the strongest methods and appropriate for external doors but IMO and experience it's not the strongest or the best. "Wedge dowel doors will last as long as ANY mortise and tenon man door" If its only been used on external doors since 1900 it's still a baby. M&T construction on quality external joinery was and still is the gold standard Agree to disagree? It was proven almost 100 years ago. Wedge dowels were invented to directly compete with european door makers that were M&T snobs. When the glue craps out on your M&T the wedge dowel will still be holding strong without glue. Honestly I just have to screw with you because I know how passionate you are about your traditional joinery. Someday Ill get around to doing a post on wedge dowels after I buy myself a new electric pencil sharpener / wedge maker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G S Haydon Posted July 30, 2013 Report Share Posted July 30, 2013 Thanks PB, I loved being screwed with , and right back at you . Who knows, maybe we could settle this like Gentlemen? I think what hurts more is the accusation of being European . And that post you do on your dowels, I will send you my wedged mortice and tenon in the post, then we will see who the snob is as you cry over your broken, sorry excuse for a woodworking joint. I'm laughing as I write this, if you don't have a smile on your face my friend I will delete this post . Too much respect for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted July 30, 2013 Report Share Posted July 30, 2013 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bclark Posted August 23, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 23, 2013 Thanks for all the great information. Sorry I havent gotten back to the post, however I have been pretty busy with two weddings this month, work and my wife and kids who keep me on my toes. I was thinking that a mortise and tenon was the way to go. Now I just need to find the time to build it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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