chrisphr Posted October 17, 2013 Report Share Posted October 17, 2013 I'm making some super sized versions of the wall hanging cabinet for garage storage and joinery practice. They are made of some sort of soft wood (sold as "white wood" at lowes), and I am guessing once mounted to the wall will need to be capable of a working load of about 130lbs (the size is capable of carrying about 12 1gal paint cans). I plan on using a French cleat system to span the entire width of the cabinets (about 35"). Question is will I be fine using the softwood to make the cleat? Seams like the weakness will be in 45degree cut, but I think all the force is going straight down so that 45 shouldn't be too stressed. Love to get some second opinions. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bombarde16 Posted October 17, 2013 Report Share Posted October 17, 2013 The cleat should be fine. You'll want it firmly attached to the carcase and the mating piece screwed into the studs. Other than that, go for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpt life Posted October 17, 2013 Report Share Posted October 17, 2013 Whitewood at Lowes is generally SPF. When in doubt check the manufacturers label and visit their website. Lowes will not (can not?) tell you anything. Searching for SPF you can find specs. This is not to disagree with Rob, I do agree. This is just for kicks and giggles since so many of us are fixing that storm damage when the only store open is Lowes.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisphr Posted October 17, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2013 Cool, thanks for your thoughts. I thought it might be ok, but it would have been a real bummer for one of these cabinets to crash to the ground. I am a little more comfortable now with a second and third opinion! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CessnaPilotBarry Posted October 17, 2013 Report Share Posted October 17, 2013 Your weak spot will be your fasteners to the wall and case, not the wood. The 45 degree angle acts like a wedge, pulling on the fasteners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted October 17, 2013 Report Share Posted October 17, 2013 Agree with above. Most vulnerable link in the chain will be how the cleat is attached to the back of the cabinet. Maybe I missed it mentioned, but I'd make sure that the grain on your cleats is running vertically and not horizontally if you're expecting it to bear a ton of weight. As an aside...why not just use hardwood anyway (or ply)? You must have some maple or cherry scraps laying around...it won't require much material. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpt life Posted October 17, 2013 Report Share Posted October 17, 2013 Along Eric's thinking, even BORG hardwood floor transitions etc can be found for minimal cost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdwerker Posted October 17, 2013 Report Share Posted October 17, 2013 I have used hardwood plywood scraps with great results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pghmyn Posted October 17, 2013 Report Share Posted October 17, 2013 I think you'll be fine with the softwood. Don't you recess the back panel anyway, for French cleats. So, put the cleat that attaches to the panel up against the top of the cabinet. Vertical force taken care of. Use wide washers with the screws and you should be golden. Hardwood would probably be better, but I doubt it would be significant. Just thinking out loud here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisphr Posted October 18, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 18, 2013 Bummer, read the last 5 comments after completing the glue up for the French cleats. Will use 3/8 lag screws to attach to wall, should be able to get 2studs, maybe 3 over that span. It is recessed like the guild build, and was planning on only using glue like the build for the cleat. It is located at the top of the cabinet. Should I add a few fasteners? Unfortunately, grain running horizontal. Am I in trouble? If this is risky, since these are only garage cabinets I can add another cross member on the back of the cabinet on the bottom (in the recess), then fasten with more lag screws straight through the cabinet. That should take a lot of pressure off the cleat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpt life Posted October 18, 2013 Report Share Posted October 18, 2013 I weigh 160. I do lots of mock up and jump on it testing. Half the length, half the fastening, 160 static plus violent motion, gives me a good feel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CessnaPilotBarry Posted October 18, 2013 Report Share Posted October 18, 2013 Unfortunately, grain running horizontal. Am I in trouble? I don't think so... The wood that takes the most stress is in compression between the screws. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisphr Posted October 20, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2013 Thanks again, I hung them this weekend and they feel very sturdy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Smith Posted October 29, 2013 Report Share Posted October 29, 2013 I agree with CessnaPilotBarry that it is more like that the screw is going to fail than the french cleat itself, which probably means that the soft wood vs. hard wood main impact will be whether it holds the screw better. There is the actual results of testing done with aluminum clips here: http://www.monarchmetal.com/monarch-z-clip-load-bearing-metal-french-cleat-load-rating/ where you can see the screw was the weak factor and it is surprising how much similar systems really hold (around 4,000 pounds in shear!). One key difference is in your application you will be hanging cabinets out from the wall the force will be both tensile and shear. You mentioned you used a 3/8'' lag to attach the bottom cleat to the wall; what type of screw did you end up using to attach the top cleat to the back of the cabinet? Did you use a spacer on the bottom to hold most of the weight in shear? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisphr Posted November 4, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 4, 2013 Ended up using a construction lag, similar to fasten master ledger lock. The cleat was counter bored about 1.5" wide to accommodate a fender washer of the same size to maximizes the surface area in which the screw applies. I was able to get two in across that span. Since the cabinet was designed with the back panel inset from the back, there is only one cleat and it is supported by the top of the cabinet. The cleat is glued in place only, 4 sides glued, but most of the surface area is up against the top and back of the cabinet. This sound ok, or do you think I should drive a couple screws straight through at the bottom as well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coop Posted November 4, 2013 Report Share Posted November 4, 2013 Have you guys used or seen the self tapping screws that have a washer made onto the head? They are gold or bronze in color and have a star drive. They come in varying lengths and are sold at Home Depot. The carpenters that installed the cabinets in our kitchen used the 4" ones and screwed directly thru the cleat, cabinet back, sheet rock and into the stud using a driver. I have used them many times since, the last to secure my wood storage rack to the wall in my shop. You'll throw your lag bolts away after using these. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpt life Posted November 4, 2013 Report Share Posted November 4, 2013 You are describing screw lags. They are quite popular in my region for tasks that used to be relegated to bolt lags. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CessnaPilotBarry Posted November 4, 2013 Report Share Posted November 4, 2013 Have you guys used or seen the self tapping screws that have a washer made onto the head? I've used these with great success... http://www.mcfeelys.com/product/0824-PHW/10-x-2-12-FastCapreg-Cabinet-Mounting-Screws-Clear-Zinc-Plated-Flat-Head-Square-Drive They come in various sizes, and FastCap sells finished and unfinished wood, as well as plastic covers for the heads. With the cover on, you can still see the screw, but they aren't obtrusive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisphr Posted November 5, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 5, 2013 This is what I used, got at lowes. Star drive, type 17 point, serrated threads and totally awesome. The washer probably not necessary, but I added it anyways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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