problem putting a polycrylic over furniture

[mab54]

I recently redid a old oak bedroom furniture. It was originally finished with a milk stain. Because of this when I tried to get off the stain it left a little stain in the pores. I then painted it,I used 2 coats of zinsser primer then 2 coats of Valspar latex paint. I wanted to see a wood grain so I mixed 3 parts Valspar clear mixing glaze to one part brunt umber and used a wood graining tool to get the effect. It worked great. Well almost, I used all water based products and the I wanted to put a polycrylic on  to protect it, I tried to apply the minwax water based polycrylic and it was cloudy and some spots blotched a bit. I Was told after the fact that I can not use any poly over glaze (told by the Valspar customer service rep). Then I was told that the problem is probably that I did not let the glaze cure long enough.What I need to know if anyone out their has put a polycrylic over a glazed project , did you get good results or the same as I got?  If you got a good result what did you do that I did not? What Poly did you use? how long did let the project cure? Did you first apply a shellac then put the poly over it????? Can anyone  help me on this??????    Thanks Marty  

[PaulMarcel]

The water-based polycrylic will soften the glaze; you'd need a barrier coat of shellac (alcohol-based not one of the water-borne ones). Glazes lack the quantity of binders stains have (paint is a stain, too). They soften easily, which is by design.

[mab54]

Thanks for the info. So cure time is not the issue. I will use a shellac.(Zinsser clear).  I also have noticed when I rub the the wood there is a dust or a powder that comes up I was told to use a damp cloth on it and I did twice as a matter of fact. I still get the dust,any idea why this is? and will this affect the shellac/poly finish?  Thanks again, Marty 

[PaulMarcel]

When you rub the painted and glazed surface you get dust? The glazes I've used definitely stick; might be able to dust them if I rubbed hard enough, but only hit the projects with a microfiber cloth before the clearcoat.  Maybe I'm not understanding the dust part. If you just put the glaze on, gave it some time to dry, then applied a shellac barrier coat, you should be fine. You don't need some thick shellac layer so you could go for a spray can of shellac to dust it. When you apply the polyacrylic (brush?) don't work it; just single overlapping strokes. If you work it, you might get pull-off if you were light somewhere with the barrier coat.

[mab54]

When i rub the wood it looks as if i just touched it with baby powder not quite as white more grey like, i use a dry brush quickly over it and it disappears, i also used a damp cloth and it goes away until it dries then i rub it again and it's back. The glaze I used was Valspar clear mixing glaze. I'm hoping that when I apply the shellac it will stop it  from coming up and, when I apply the poly it will cover it so it does not reappear when it is touched.   Marty   

[PaulMarcel]

Hmm, okay, I dunno why you get the powder. Maybe someone else will chime in who has worked with that product. Sorry!

[AceHoleInOne]

Is the ratio of 3 to 1 per Valspar or did you come up with that on your own. Finish manufactures have all the ratios worked out. If we get to heavy handed, you can actually hammer the finish recipe. Causing adhesion problems.

 

With glazes, some people will apply heavy some apply light. If a glaze is applied heavy, it will require a longer time to cure. What may of occurred, since your glaze was not fully dried and cured. It was off gassing through the topcoat. And to answer your question ---yes you can topcoat over a glaze. It's done all the time. How long to let a glaze cure -- can be 7 days, longer the better.

 

Was the latex paint a wall paint?  Wall paints and wood paints are 2 different animals. It’s like comparing a car to a pickup truck, one’s not better than the other it just has different features for different jobs. Wood paint is formulated to adhere better and is more durable.

 

That is why it's important to stick to one finish manufacture when doing things like this. Compatibility of products is key.

 

-Ace-

[CessnaPilotBarry]

I was taught that glazes must be top coated, completely the opposite of Valspar's advice...    Maybe the Valspar product isn't really a glaze in the commonly understood definition, but they call it a glaze? 

 

+1 on Ace's "systemizing" point, using one manufacturer's products for complicated finishing schedules.   At the very minimum, test from soup to nuts before applying to the item that matters.

[mab54]

Ace , I got the  3-1 ratio from a book, a guy said he has used this ratio and the look he got was what I was looking for. The answers might be in answering the questions you guys came up with. 1) Valspar Signature  Clear Mixing Glaze is what I used and now looking at the paint I added was not latex but acrylic paint Folkart to be specific #462 Burnt Umber. I now looked up the mix that Valspar recommends.(How dumb am I ?....don't answer that!!!) They say use 4-8 parts glaze to 1 part paint. I will ask you guys did I mess up? Is the 3-1 the reason for my trouble? Marty

[krenae]

Probably late w/ response, but for others' info.  I just recently redid a dresser top, pine sanded to bare wood, using high quality synthetic bristle brush, applied 3 coats of BIN shellac primer, 4 coats of Satin Acrylic Enamel Latex paint as a base for glaze.  Very thin coats of each, let each dry overnight between coats, light sanding between coats.  After final coat of base paint had been applied, let dry for 2 full days before glazing.  I did NOT apply a protective coat of anything between paint and glaze or glaze and poly.  The faux technique I used called for applying a pretty hefty coat of water based glaze, then "streaking" my acrylic latex paint through wet glaze.  After technique was finished, again let it dry for 2 FULL days before applying first coat of Minwax Polycrylic, and again, thin applications using foam "sponge -on-a-stick" applicator.  In order to even out the surface and fill in spots where I'd sanded more than others, I had to apply 7 THIN coats of poly, waiting anywhere from 2 hrs to overnight between coats, depending on the amount of time I had.  It dries very quickly so don't expect to go back and "touch-up" an area you just applied a minute ago.  Chances are, it'll already be too tacky and you'll make a mess.  Put it on in long, single strokes and then WALK AWAY.  Fix any misses, etc on the next coat. Watch for drips (which you shouldn't have if you're applying it thinly enough.) I used 1000 grit sandpaper between coats only to knock down any inevitable "bumps".  After final coat, let dry for 2 FULL days before messing with it at all.  Moved it into bedroom after 2 1/2 days, waited 2 weeks before setting ANYTHING at all on top, will wait a full month before putting anything of weight on top, for much actual use, or before using anything other than a soft dry rag and light touch to clean the top.  Very important to use a CLEAN tac cloth before applying the next coat of primer, paint or poly.  Even if you don't sand, even if it looks clean, even if you just applied the last coat 2 hrs ago, even if you think your room is relatively dust free, WIPE IT DOWN.  Don't overwork the poly, don't apply thick layers, if the finish isn't perfect, if the texture or the sheen isn't "even" in all spots, keep adding LIGHT poly coats until it is.  It will get there eventually (like in SEVEN coats!) as long as you don't put it on too heavily,  don't overwork it, don't recoat before previous coat is dry.  I've found the polycrylics to be rather "fussy" and require more coats than the polyurethanes to provide similar durability, but love the ease of clean-up and complete lack of odor.

Edited August 29, 2015 by krenae