Andrew Pritchard Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 http://www.kijiji.ca/v-hand-tool/bridgewater/stanley-hand-planes/565935411 What do you think? I've already sent an email to try and find out how old the planes are. I don't like the look of the No 5's handles, but that could be the photos and anyway they are replaceable. For $40 CAD (which isn't that much different from $40 US right now), I might take a chance on them but not if they are complete junk. Obviously they need a lot of work, but I don't mind that so much if they are diamonds in the rough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpt life Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 Kidney Bean means the four is not super old but it looks original. If the five is a Stanley, it has unusual handles and labeling on the lever cap making be think it might be a Franken. For $20 you can sometimes do better but they are probably worth that price point. It would be an easier call if they had shots with the iron off etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G S Haydon Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 Diamonds, possibly. I would wait a little longer, Sam scored a decent #4 a while back. If shop time is limited it will be amazing how much of that goes into these. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryMcK Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 Worth a punt I think Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Pritchard Posted February 13, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 Kidney Bean means the four is not super old but it looks original. If the five is a Stanley, it has unusual handles and labeling on the lever cap making be think it might be a Franken. For $20 you can sometimes do better but they are probably worth that price point. It would be an easier call if they had shots with the iron off etc. Kidney Bean? Diamonds, possibly. I would wait a little longer, Sam scored a decent #4 a while back. If shop time is limited it will be amazing how much of that goes into these. Diamonds? Can you tell I'm new to hand planes There's no pictures of the soles of the planes, but I don't imagine they are in a much worse state than the rest of the bodies. I don't see any cracks in the castings, but then you can only see one side. Shop time is (unfortunately) limited and if I did pick them up now, they wouldn't get touched for a month or two. That said I'm half way through my current project (The Small Portable Apothecary Cabinet, see project journals), and I'd probably tackle them then. How long does a clean up of this sort take? I was assuming a couple of days to remove the rust and make sure the soles are flat and 90 degrees to the sides. Perhaps another day to get the blades sharp. Or am I missing something here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G S Haydon Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 Kidney bean is the shape of the slot on the lever cap. Andrew, they will work just fine. It's just surprising how much abrasive is used, how much mess is made. If you can spare the time and you enjoy the process then go for it. You also learn quite a bit about the tool when you work on it, what works, what's important and what's not. Regarding sole and side squareness I would not worry too much about that unless one of them will be used on a shooting board all of the time, and even then it would have to be out a lot for me to worry about it. Your time frame is realistic and you will have good tools at the end of it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Pritchard Posted February 13, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 I buy my petrol for my company car (I'm an ex-Brit. I still have to translate) from Canadian Tire and get reward points which I can spend in Canadian Tire. They sell wet/dry sandpaper (amongst many other things) so it won't cost me much to buy the abrasive and they got from 320 grit up to 1500. They might even go up to 3000 grit in small papers for car paint. Probably big enough for blade sharpening. I do need to buy a piece of glass or something flat, but that'll only cost me $20 or so. I should get that anyway so I can sharpen my chisels too. I've been using a piece of reasonably flat plywood, with pretty good results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G S Haydon Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 Ideal! I have a couple of planes I want to put some time too. I was going to try some 80grit to start! If you get them please do a few WIP shots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Pritchard Posted February 13, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 I was wondering if 80 grit would be too aggressive. I'm trying to get the current owner to send some pics of the sole, but as they are only 10 minutes out (a rarity in the Boonies of Nova Scotia) I figured I might just go and look at them. WIP shots are a must - if nothing else so I can get some restoration advice as I go! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arminius Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 The #4 is a nice one, at a guess probably from the '30's. I can't tell, but I would guess both are Canadian made, at Roxton Pond in Quebec. They will not fit the usual Type study quite perfectly. The #5 is much newer, likely from the late 60's. Not terrible, but not as well made as the #4. Still, it is a jack plane, it can be tuned to do that job. Stanley changed to the blue colour scheme in Canada somewhat before they stopped using the older casting style, so there is a period where the US-made blue ones are significantly poorer than the Canadian ones. I have a similar one that lives next to the country woodpile for doing the roughest work. A partial exception to the rule that the blues are not worth workign with. At $40, I'd go for it. Canadian prices for old planes are not usually as low as some of the Eastern US rust-heavens, and unless it is an absolute mess, that #4 could end up being worth it alone. My first bench plane was a similar #4, in the years since it has been joined by new L-Ns, Veritas, vintage Type 11s and Bedrocks...but it still lives within reach of the bench. For reconditioning, 80-grit is not necessarily too aggressive, but it is unnecessary unless you are removing significant pitting from a key functional area, or have similar leveling to do. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Pritchard Posted February 13, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 What are the key areas of the sole I need to pay attention to - I'm guessing the toe up to the mouth and heel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pghmyn Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 I'd say go for it. $40 CAD really isn't too bad for two planes. If I was to bet, you will probably end up with only one full day of hefty restoration work to get them into close enough condition for working and playing with them. Mine came in pretty good condition and I only had to sharpen the blade for a few hours (my first time with a plane blade, ever), and I was off to the races. I made changes here and there, but they were merely aesthetic. The plane functioned well right away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Keith Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 Those are the main areas, it is also nice to have the a thin area along each long sides coplanar as well. The important area around the mouth is just in front of the mouth. In normal conditions, the area just behind the mouth will not be touching wood anyway. I would spend the bulk of your time on the 4. If it were me, I would use the 5 as a scrub or fore plane (assuming you don't have one), which doesn't require a high level of accuracy. Just grind and sharpen the iron to about an 8" radius and make sure the mouth is open wide. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryMcK Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 +1 on 80 grit to start with. Otherwise you will be at it for weeks. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Pritchard Posted February 13, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 I picked them up. The No 4 easily weighs as much as the No 5. There is some rust on the soles, but not as much as I was expecting which is a pleasant surprise. I only had a small block plane until now, so it's nice to get something else to work with. I'm a hybrid woodworker, trying to expand my hand tool collection so this is a good start. I'm looking forward to not needing to do quite so much sanding if I can get that No 4 in a good state! WIP pictures as and when I get to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Pritchard Posted February 15, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 So the No. 4 is labelled "Bailey" (Which is a Stanley?) and "Made in Can." There's some rust on it, but it looks like it's mostly surface crap. The handles need some love but not so much as I couldn't start it right away. The No. 5, I am not convinced is Stanley. There's no writing on the body of the plane (aside from "No.5" at the back), and the lever cap is labelled "Mibro". The sole is in much better condition than the No. 4 with very little surface rust, but more dirt. Somewhere along the line the blade had been put in bevel up. Is that just someone not knowing what they were doing, or is there a reason to do that? I noticed there's some bluish marks on the blade - has someone burnt this blade? Is it even salvageable? I also noticed there was a chip out of the mouth - is this going to be a problem? There don't appear to be any cracks running from the chip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arminius Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 Looks like it is a Mibro knock-off of a late Stanley. Probably won't be worth spending much time on as anything but a rough-work jack or scrub, so the chip in the mouth won't be much of an impediment. Bevel up is a 'did not know what they were doing'. Hard to know about those burn marks, I can't really imagine how they could have been done by grinding. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Pritchard Posted February 15, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 They would have to have heated the whole of the front of the blade with a blowtorch to get it that color! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arminius Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 They would have to have heated the whole of the front of the blade with a blowtorch to get it that color! That may be exactly what happened, though only superficially - might have used it on something gummy, then cleaned it with a blowtorch. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpt life Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 As I am buying old users, the biggest problem I am having is abused chip breakers. Most are curved along the bottom edge and take a bit of work to properly seat them to the blade. There is nothing quite so frustrating as thinking you are good to go and having your first shaving force its way under the chip breaker. Everything else I found straight forward and easily found rehab tutorials from minimalist to "ooh shiny!" 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Pritchard Posted February 15, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 Whilst waiting for some glue to dry, I've taken the No 4 apart and started the clean up. I've removed most of the surface rust with some WD40 and steel wool. I've started with the 80 grit paper and I'm getting some good results. However there is significant pitting on the sole: Some work with the RO sander is taking that surface back, but it's not easy going! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arminius Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 I really would not recommend using an RO sander - get some granite tile or float glass and stick a couple of sheets of sandpaper to it. Make sure you have a frog assembly and blade in place, and just use a planing/swirling action. I go clockwise and counterclockwise, backwards and forwards to ensure that my dominant hand does not affect the flatness. I believe Matt from MBW managed to make a new L-N not fully functional by making the sole not planar with the frog. It won't take too long with the 80 grit before you can start stepping up through the grades to whatever shine you want - none of that pitting looks like it will affect performance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Pritchard Posted February 15, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 The pitting's not too deep. Obviously you can see it even on the grainy photos I've taken. Would pitting like that be more of a problem on the toe? I was only using the RO cos my arms were getting tired from sanding! I'll switch back to a flat surface and muscle power. I guess once I start using the plane, that'll build some muscle! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arminius Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 The only pitting that I think could be a problem is the area right on the mouth in your first photo, and maybe the part directly in front of it on the toe. The mouth is the critical piece, particularly for a smoother. It doesn't look that bad though, and I can't tell if it is already gone due to the glare. One of the things I do is use a coloured Sharpie to mark out the problem areas. In practice, the marker will come off from loose abrasives, but a few quick passes will definitely show where there is a significant difference in contact. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G S Haydon Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 Andrew, on the blade it's likely to be okish If you are working on the sole have the frog, blade, cap iron, lever cap all in and set. Just make sure the blade is wound well back. Then work on it. The tension applied by the frog setting screws will change things in regard to the shape of the sole. I would leave off the ROS on the sole, 80 grit on a flat well supported bit of MDF would be ideal with some 120 and then 240 Remove the pitting if you wish but the main area is in front of the mouth which is nice to get good and then a reasonable spread of fresh metal here and there around the rest of the sole. The chip on the mouth is unlikely to be an issue in most cases. Keep going. BTW, your avatar freaks me out, what is it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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