Nick2cd Posted March 6, 2014 Report Share Posted March 6, 2014 I've been browsing the aisles of home depot and lowes looking for a new light fixture to go in my shop. i currently have two T-12 bulbs that are 4' long over my table saw. my shop is small so my table saw often gets used for layout, assembly, and any other task that it shouldn't be used to execute. the t-12 fluorescent bulbs do ok, but i want to step it up. as i was walking through home depot, i noticed a fixture that was WAY brighter than anything in the rest of the aisle. it was a t-5 high output 4 bulb fixture. i got a bit of a sunburn while i was reading the specs on it. the only downside i can find with this light is the price. the fixture is about $100 and the bulbs are $10 each. so the whole thing will come to $140-150. seems like a lot for a light, but I'm willing to spend the money if it will accomplish the desired task. anyone else own any T5 fixtures? thoughts or insight is appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpt life Posted March 6, 2014 Report Share Posted March 6, 2014 T5 is superb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southwood Posted March 6, 2014 Report Share Posted March 6, 2014 Pull the trigger. One of the best lights available and your electric usage will be lower Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted March 6, 2014 Report Share Posted March 6, 2014 I have one 8' T5 ballast in my shop along with a bunch of T8s. No doubt it's bright as hell. I personally don't care for the color though. Makes me feel like I'm made of plastic or something. I don't get into the whole science of lighting that some guys go crazy over...I thought I wanted REALLY bright, and that's what I got, but it's not as pleasing to me as the T8s. I'll probably take it down eventually and replace it with more T8s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted March 6, 2014 Report Share Posted March 6, 2014 T5s are certainly worth looking at... T8s are also very good... On the upside: T5s are a bit more efficient than T8s (but not dramatically more). For their size, T5s are brighter than T8s. On the down-side: Depends on where your shop is located, but low-temp performance of T5s suffers (ex. garage shop in winter). T5 tubes are between 2x and 3x the price of T8 tubes -- the better T5 tubes are about $10/each. Summary: if your a typical residential user, T5s are usually not recommended. The energy savings is more than offset by the higher tube prices -- for now... T5 pricing will decrease as mfg volume increases -- much as T8 -v- T12. Note: I've got 24 4x48" tube fixtures. I costed-out both T5s and T8s. Even at 96 tubes, the energy savings of T5s do not off-set the price-difference of T8 tubes for the number hrs/week my shop and garage are lit. I use high-efficiency daylight T8 850 series tubes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick2cd Posted March 6, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2014 I'd like to get a color temp somewhere around 5000k...a nice pure white. We use the color corrected daylight tubes at the office so we can get good shade matching. Those things are expensive. But then again, so is everything else in my field. Anyways, I'll probably give the t5's a try but maybe shoot for a warmer color temp. I don't wanna walk around the shop lookin all plasticky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhighlander Posted March 6, 2014 Report Share Posted March 6, 2014 Guys, I recently installed some 4' LED fixtures at my workplace, for less than what you just quoted for the T-5 units. They are awesome. I measured (with a light meter) illumination comparable to T-8, they use 40% less energy (measured with a watt-hour meter), and they are rated for 50,000 hours of use before the output drops to 70% of new. Hard to beat, in my book. I have both 3500 k and 5000 k color temperature units, and I prefer the "hotter" color. Seems more like natural daylight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpt life Posted March 6, 2014 Report Share Posted March 6, 2014 You'll never need as many T5 to equal T8 output so the tube cost is offsetting making the energy savings an actual factor. More so if you have a high leg or transform for high voltage ballasts. These are not as common in residential settings. Also not as common are high bay ceilings which is what T5 fixtures were really designed for. Color temp is a whole nother ball of wax. Much of this is determined by surroundings. Unless you are finishing automotive you will likely hate T5 with white walls. Again they were designed for large shops where walls aren't close. If T8 Daylights give you what color you want, invest instead in fixtures with highly reflective panning. They will make more effective use of what light is being produced. If energy is truly a concern, and you are laying out new lighting, seriously research LED. Every few months developments bring new concepts that beat the pants off fluorescents in longetivity and energy savings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freddie Posted March 6, 2014 Report Share Posted March 6, 2014 I have t8 with 6500 bulbs, like a damn operating room! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick2cd Posted March 6, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2014 Guys, I recently installed some 4' LED fixtures at my workplace, for less than what you just quoted for the T-5 units. They are awesome. I measured (with a light meter) illumination comparable to T-8, they use 40% less energy (measured with a watt-hour meter), and they are rated for 50,000 hours of use before the output drops to 70% of new. Hard to beat, in my book. I have both 3500 k and 5000 k color temperature units, and I prefer the "hotter" color. Seems more like natural daylight. Could u put a link to the LED unit u bought? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhighlander Posted March 6, 2014 Report Share Posted March 6, 2014 The units I bought are 2 x 4 drop-in troffers for drop ceilings. They came from Graybar, manufactured by Eaton, I think. I'll have to lool up the purchase order when I get to work.I'm guessing you want a surface mount fixture, but Graybar carries those as well, in several different styles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted March 6, 2014 Report Share Posted March 6, 2014 I have 8 110w 8 ft tubes and will probably add 4 more tubes as my eyes are failing fast. My shop is very bright always looks like a nice sunny day. There is one issue with being this bright. The IR remotes don't work as well. my dc relay had to be moved down a little and the stereo won't work at all unless the lights are turned off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted March 6, 2014 Report Share Posted March 6, 2014 ==>You'll never need as many T5 to equal T8 output so the tube cost is offsetting making the energy savings an actual factor. We have to be a bit careful here... Lighting is more than just how many watts you consume... A big part of the equation is spread/throw/coverage. Since you don't get as much spread in an 8' install, you still need similar number of fixtures in T8 -v- T5 comparisons. If you go T5, you can [probably] get away with fewer fixtures, but it's not like you can get away with half -- coverage would suffer... There would be dead spots... Let's assume a typical 120v residential install (we'll ignore the efficiency gains of 480Y/277/208Y)... The general rule of thumb is T8s provide 90LPW and T5s provide 99LPW -- about 10% more efficient... If you go high-efficiency, it changes to 93LPW v 102LPW, but still about 10%. The marketing literature typically compares high-efficiency T5s against low-efficiency T12s and T8s, so the T5 proposition looks more attractive on paper. Comparing like-for-like, the numbers are not that attractive. Things get better with 480/277/208. No matter how you run the numbers, a T5 install will be 2x to 3x more $$ over T8 in a typical residential application -- for now. This will change as T5 mfg vol increases and ballast/tube costs decrease. As an example, my shop has 8' ceilings. I've got 24 4x48" T8 units -- I'd have to run the numbers, but I could probably shed a couple fixtures at most to get similar coverage with T5s -- not much of a savings as a percent total operating cost. However, at $10/tube incremental, a T5 install would cost about a grand more. I re-tube annually, so my incremental cost would be about a grand/year in tubes alone. Make no mistake, a T5 install would provide me with a brighter shop (a good thing), but reducing the fixtures (aka tubes) would decrease coverage (a bad thing). If I had 12' ceilings, things would be different... However, my garage has 13' ceilings with 6 4x48" T8s -- there, I could probably go with 4 or 5 T5s... A decent percent savings. However, I still went T8 because I purchase tubes by the case and only wanted to inventory one type of tube. Now, if we're only talking a few fixtures, who cares -- it's all noise level. But you need quite a few fixtures and high ceilings to make the operating costs balance the capital outlay. I suspect in five-ten years, T8s will go the way of T12s and T5s/LED will rule the roost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom King Posted March 6, 2014 Report Share Posted March 6, 2014 waiting for prices to come down........ http://earthled.com/collections/best-price-cree-cr24-2x4-led-troffer#.UxiJomyYYcA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted March 6, 2014 Report Share Posted March 6, 2014 I don't care about the noise...my stereo is always turned up as loud as I can have it without getting the dreaded pounding on the living room wall, which means, "Turn that down @$$#0le! We can't hear the TV in here!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhighlander Posted March 6, 2014 Report Share Posted March 6, 2014 I'm betting LED is going to take over befor T5 can get a real foot hold. In another case where I work, we are replacing 2-tube, 8' T-12 fixtues with an LED unit that is about 16" wide and 24" long. One LED provides a brighter (perceived) illumination that 2 8' flourescents mounted end to end. And uses just a bit less power. And they are rated for 100,000 hours of operation, I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted March 6, 2014 Report Share Posted March 6, 2014 I would not get caught up in expensive lighting unless your lighting a business or something that spends lots of money on power. Cold temp use bulbs and cheap HO fixtures make no noise what so ever and start instantly even if the shop is 20 degrees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted March 6, 2014 Report Share Posted March 6, 2014 ==>I'm betting LED is going to take over befor T5 can get a real foot hold It's an interesting bet... LED's prices are falling pretty fast... Residential will drive LEDs rapidly lower over the next five-ten years, but a lot of open-plan and high-bay commercial will go T5 in the interim. It's going to be a race to see what replaces T8 -- T5, LED, or maybe something else new... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted March 6, 2014 Report Share Posted March 6, 2014 ==>but a lot of open-plan and high-bay commercial will go T5 in the interim. Metal halides are not going anywhere anytime soon. I dont think we will see them disappear in our life time. We just had them installed in our new building. Leds were nearly 40 times the cost to get enough light to pass OSHA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted March 6, 2014 Report Share Posted March 6, 2014 ==>Metal halides are not going anywhere anytime soon. I dont think we will see them disappear in our life time. You could be right -- we install them when the deck is 32' and open-rack warehousing. The lightbulb-police will get them eventually... But you're probably right, not for another decade or two... But I bet new-installs will start feeling the pressure within 10 years... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhighlander Posted March 7, 2014 Report Share Posted March 7, 2014 Metal halides are not going anywhere anytime soon. I dont think we will see them disappear in our life time. We just had them installed in our new building. Leds were nearly 40 times the cost to get enough light to pass OSHA. That sounds like the prices I saw when I started investigating LED lights about 2 years ago. They have dropped a LOT just recently. I'm also discovering that even when replacing MH units, very often fewer LEDs are needed to supply the required illumination. Of course, we are talking about different environments and illumination requirements, I'm sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krtwood Posted March 7, 2014 Report Share Posted March 7, 2014 Note: I've got 24 4x48" tube fixtures. Do you have trouble with aircraft mistaking your shop for a runway? Geez. That's what, about 3000 watts of lighting? I've got two electric heaters in the winter pulling less than that to warm up the shop from 50 to 60F and I shut one of them off after about 20 minutes. I have a total of 12 4' bulbs in my shop. It could use 2 more. But it's only 300 sqft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted March 7, 2014 Report Share Posted March 7, 2014 ==>Do you have trouble with aircraft mistaking your shop for a runway? What can I say, I like light... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jfitz Posted March 18, 2014 Report Share Posted March 18, 2014 Interesting thread. I'm revisiting the issue of lighting in my shop, and I don't think I want to spend the money on T5 or LED quite yet. I have a few T12 dual-lamp fixtures, but nowhere near enough, so I'm debating adding more of the same (with the same cool-white bulbs) or going with T8 fixtures with 5000K bulbs. My shop is essentially 2 separate 13x17 areas with a 9' opening between them. From what I've read, each area (about 200sf) would be well served with 6 dual-lamp fixtures (12 lamps total) but I'm not sure how to place them. Should I worry about the fixtures going 'end-to-end' for a continuous row of lights? or am I better off spreading them more evenly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ziflin Posted March 18, 2014 Report Share Posted March 18, 2014 I just replaced 4 2-bulb T8 fixtures with T5s from Home Depot and added another circuit of 4 more 2-bulb T5's. Here's a pic, though it does not do the light output justice. It is PLENTY bright in there, even in the middle of winter. 4' T5 at HD - $40/each. 8' T5 at HD - $70/each 15-Pack 4100K HO Bulbs (because for some reason you need an odd number?) - $80 (so $5.33/bulb) That's the best price I could find for the amount of light anywhere. The 4100K color is very nice. (I'm still debating putting another light in behind the garage door opener or a ceiling fan...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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