Janello Posted April 15, 2014 Report Share Posted April 15, 2014 This will be a first for me, so I am looking for all kids of advise to get started. What I'd like and what I can afford may be two different things, so I look to you guys for some guidance and ideas. I would like to put up a 24x30 structure at the end of my driveway. It will be a dedicated shop/man cave. I live in central jersey and my initial budget is 25k before what I plan to do, which is all the interior finishing including insulating, interior wall finish, heat and electric myself. I basically need to hire out the structure build including slab, siding, roof, a few windows, man door and sliding barn door. I have reached out to Morton buildings to come give me an estimate for a pole barn, and I have some local contractors that I trust for pricing out a conventional stick frame structure. I have yet to have this quoted. So, here's what I'm asking you guys for starters. A.) do you think my budget is out of wack? Am I crazy to think I can have this built for approx 25k? B.) Is there a reason not to go with one construction design or the other? Is one better or cheaper? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..Kev Posted April 15, 2014 Report Share Posted April 15, 2014 Loaded questions for sure to get about 100 different answers! My first question would be, if you're doing pole construction, why not do it yourself? They're just not hard. I have a 30 x 50 in pole construction that I built myself. I also have a 24 x 28 (Garage) in pole construction that I hired out. The smaller one cost me twice as much as the bigger one. Labor costs can be killer. Personally, I like the pole construction because it's much cheaper, easier to build, faster to build, and just as easy to finish out the inside as standard construction. With that said, stick built construction is generally worth more on resale than pole. I think you'll be very close to that budget if you hire it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave H Posted April 15, 2014 Report Share Posted April 15, 2014 My shop is a pole barn and is insulated to R-19 and, I built it myself so I planed the insulation of the building all the way through from the day I started drawing up the plans. The reason I went with pole barn construction was because I had experience is this style and would be easier for me to do mostly on my own. Now I did have help with skinning out the roof and, getting the concrete slab on the ground but did the rest myself. That being said if I was hiring out the construction to a contractor I would go with a slab on grade with a monolithic footing and, with conventional studded walls, trusses for the roof because of the ease of insulation I would go with 2x6's for the studs which would allow you R-19 for the walls. Usually the price for a contracted pole building is just for the basic structure and slab on grade than you would be on your own for the insulation problems that you would have overcome. Go look at a pole barn from the inside than imagine all the work that needs to be done to have a finished insulated shop that can be heated at reasonable cost so you can comfortably work in all year round, on a conventional constructed it's ready for insulation, electrical, plumbing with no additional work so figure that into the equation when pricing out both building methods. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpt life Posted April 15, 2014 Report Share Posted April 15, 2014 Traditional pole barns are rated at 35 years longetivity. Many people have made them last longer, but this is the maximum certification you'll get out of buried posts. This about the only thing I have to add to what is the original question. ICF has really been growing on me, but it is as limiting as it is appealing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpt life Posted April 15, 2014 Report Share Posted April 15, 2014 This goes to the untreated old growth vs. treated new growth argument. Beyond that, the old barns that still stand here are all on stone foundations. No wood contacts the ground except the door jambs. All door jambs have been replaced once or twice in the past one hundred years. No pole barn with treated posts even touches the longetivity. I have repaired dozens of rotted posts on structures in the 45-50 year range. I will see if I can recover the documentation, but a huge component of my training was to not rely on post foundations beyond 35 years. This somehow stands in stark contrast to pile driven anchors that seem to resist decay due to oxygen starvation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janello Posted April 16, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 16, 2014 Well, either way, I'd be 85 by then. So if the pole barn collapses on me at that point I'll have lived a pretty long life and have died doing what I loved. Tiods, the idea of building it myself was very tempting but there are to many reasons why that won't work out to well. Including but not limited to- 20x40 pool and tiki bar in the yard to maintain, other repairs around the house, spring cleanup, wood projects, working 40 hours with no vacation time to spare and the kids always needing this and that. I just got done remodeling my whole first floor....I'm gonna watch someone build it from my pool! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..Kev Posted April 16, 2014 Report Share Posted April 16, 2014 Well, either way, I'd be 85 by then. So if the pole barn collapses on me at that point I'll have lived a pretty long life and have died doing what I loved. Tiods, the idea of building it myself was very tempting but there are to many reasons why that won't work out to well. Including but not limited to- 20x40 pool and tiki bar in the yard to maintain, other repairs around the house, spring cleanup, wood projects, working 40 hours with no vacation time to spare and the kids always needing this and that. I just got done remodeling my whole first floor....I'm gonna watch someone build it from my pool! I completely understand, that's exactly the same sort of stuff I had to deal with when I built mine I hired out the concrete and spent a fair share on beer and pizza on some weekends to get the shell up. Was well worth the 10k in labor I saved. It's your dime and your time. Either way, I hope you get exactly what you want and enjoy it for many years to come! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
estesbubba Posted April 16, 2014 Report Share Posted April 16, 2014 I'm in the process of having a pole barn put up in mid-June so know what you're going through. I got quotes from several companies and also looked at building it myself. In the end it hasn't worth trying to save some money and I'm having a Lester Building put up. My building will be 30x40 enclosed with a 40x8 porch on the front. I'm going to do the inside myself with R-19 insulation in the walls, blown in the ceiling, and OSB for the walls and ceiling. Of course there's the concrete, electrical, and heat but I have a plan on each. It's a lot of planning but also a lot of fun! I got bids from Lester, Astro, Cleary, and Morton. I didn't care for the Morton sales rep plus they were 30+% higher than the others and hear that is typical. I liked all the other builders and ended up going with Lester. I also contacted Wick but they never returned my calls but I see a fair amount of their buildings around here. I would get estimates from several different companies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janello Posted April 16, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 16, 2014 Is Lester nation wide? I know Morton has a local rep, just not sure about Lester, I will look into that. Edit; A quick google search located the nearest rep in PA. I'll give them a call. Thanks Mike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
estesbubba Posted April 16, 2014 Report Share Posted April 16, 2014 http://www.lesterbuildings.com/Sales-Map/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
estesbubba Posted April 16, 2014 Report Share Posted April 16, 2014 This building is very similar to mine http://www.lesterbuildings.com/Our-Buildings/Project-Library/2005/116302/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janello Posted April 16, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 16, 2014 That's exactly the design I was looking to do Mike. But I want sliding barn doors up front. So having said that, do you think a 24x30 structure with a poured slab is doable within my budget? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
estesbubba Posted April 16, 2014 Report Share Posted April 16, 2014 I don't know how much pole barn prices differ between regions but my guess is you would be close to budget. What I liked about my Lester guy is he broke down the cost of everything which allowed me to know exactly what changing options would do to the price. The Morton guy would give a huge quote and wouldn't give the details or prices of all the components w/o a bunch of emails asking. I don't need 26 gauge steel, 5" slab, and his overhead door was double the price of everyone else's. The Lester quote even broke down the materials cost and labor cost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janello Posted April 16, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 16, 2014 I just used their ebuildings calculator. I put in my zipcode and county and priced up a 27' x 36' x 9'-3" Deluxe town and country with porch, similar to the one you have linked above. Material and Labor are listed at $22,875. It looks like in addition to that there are trucking and site prep charges, but that fits my budget, unless I'm not seeing any hidden charges... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
estesbubba Posted April 16, 2014 Report Share Posted April 16, 2014 My zip doesn't allow the ebuildings calculator and it could be there are 3-4 dealers for my area. My dealer was able to give me a 5% discount because my building was a common configuration. He was also able to get discounted shipping because of the smaller building and he'll unload it himself. Some things you might want to ask your local dealer. My site drops 6-9" from front to back and my concrete guy said he'll bring in the dirt after the building is up. If your site isn't very flat your builder might want dirt brought in beforehand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janello Posted April 16, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 16, 2014 Thank's for all the info Mike! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Autorotate Posted April 21, 2014 Report Share Posted April 21, 2014 I don't know if you could pull it off with your budget but when I built my 30x32 pole barn I put the pex tubing in before they poured the concrete for heated floors. I did not hook it up until a few years later when i could afford the rest of the system but I'm sure glad i did it. Its a great way to heat a wood shop. and its really quite. The one thing I wish I would have done is run water and a drain to the building, it would be nice for sharpening. Anyways thats my two cents. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..Kev Posted April 21, 2014 Report Share Posted April 21, 2014 I don't know if you could pull it off with your budget but when I built my 30x32 pole barn I put the pex tubing in before they poured the concrete for heated floors. I did not hook it up until a few years later when i could afford the rest of the system but I'm sure glad i did it. Its a great way to heat a wood shop. and its really quite. The one thing I wish I would have done is run water and a drain to the building, it would be nice for sharpening. Anyways thats my two cents. Good call from Bart! If you're going to pour a slab, look into roughing in all your plumbing and electrical before you pour. Where I am, that is completely legal without a permit as long as you get a permit to hook it up. Also, if you're going to have a bathroom, you may need to insulate below the slab. That's a requirement where I am but, not sure about where you are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janello Posted April 23, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 23, 2014 I have looked into local codes and my township requires 20' off the side and back. So with that said, the end of my driveway will not accommodate that size structure. My property gets wider as it goes back pretty drastically but I didn't want it smack in the middle either. Long story short, I'm going with a 24x32 Morton Pole Barn. It will be going about 60' back from the end of my driveway with the 32' side facing forward, gable end to the neighbor. I'm having 10x10 double slide doors centered with a window to the left and entry door to the right. I added one more large window in the back and a copula. It's all metal 2 tone (wainscot) painted to match the house. Since it's so far from the house I can't easily get plumbing to it but I do have a sprinkler line near by for a hose bib/ cold water slop sink when weather permits. I have a 2" gas main near by for my pool heater and plan to tap off that source for heat. I will have to trench out to it for a 100amp sub-panel but my brother inlaw is a licensed electrician, so that shouldn't be to big an issue. I will definitely get that out there before the pour, as I want in floor 220v outlets. I'm wondering if I should insulate it myself. I didn't get a price for that but I hear it can be tricky with pole barns as far as insulation size and type that won't let the metal sweat. Can't wait to get started! Although, I'm probably looking at a few months yet before they break ground. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..Kev Posted April 23, 2014 Report Share Posted April 23, 2014 Congrats Janello! It starts with a plan and it sounds like you have that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhighlander Posted April 23, 2014 Report Share Posted April 23, 2014 My jealousy abounds! Great going, hope it proceeds well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
estesbubba Posted April 23, 2014 Report Share Posted April 23, 2014 Janello sounds like it's going to be a great shop! I plan on insulating mine myself and a local place sells wide rolls in different widths with and w/o a vapor barrier. I think if you get w/o you can put a plastic vapor barrier over it on the inside of the building before putting up the walls. What are you planning on using for the walls and ceiling? I think I've settled on OSB for mine. It's a lot of research planning everything but also a lot of fun. Mine building is scheduled for mid-June, and like Tom Petty says, "the waiting is the hardest part". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janello Posted April 23, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 23, 2014 I talked to the sales rep about my concern about the metal roof sweating if not insulated properly. I want to leave the trusses exposed and insulate the underside of the roof metal, so for a few hundred extra they are spraying a vapor barrier to the underside of the roof panels. That will eliminate it from sweating and let me choose any insulation option I want down the road without that concern. I think it was a worthy investment. Not really sure about the walls yet. I really don't like the look of OSB but it's hard to resist because it's reasonably priced and easy to install. It just may be what I will use as well. I guess I can paint it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janello Posted April 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 25, 2014 The pole barn just got bigger! I'm making it 24x36 and adding a few windows. I have to take down my pool house shed because township boss says I can't have more than 2 accessory structures, and the tiki bar ain't goin no where! So the plan is to make it bigger so I can partition off a 12'x12' room in it for pool stuff, food serving and winter man cave. I'll now have to build something around the pool filter to hide it but that shouldn't be to hard a task. Likely to be my first wood project in the new barn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janello Posted April 28, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 28, 2014 I know I'm looking way ahead but I searched for information as to the proper way to insulate my pole barn so It's metal exterior doesn't sweat. I found ten thousand incomplete answers on the web that made me more confused than when I started. Spray foam is out of the question...way to much money. So can anyone tell me what type of vapor barrier and blanket fiberglass will work? Also how do I affix the vapor barrier? My goal is to insulate the underside of the metal roof leaving the trusses exposed and insulate all the perimeter walls. I will be heating the space but not installing A/C. The Morton salesman seems to think if I leave an air gap (by adding 2x4's between the trusses below the metal) I can insulate without a vapor barrier, but I'm not sure I buy into that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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