which of these big routers...

[Jasahan]

Trying to find a router to upgrade our shop. Eventually, we will likely get a shaper. This is the primary task: we will be making commercial table tops with breadboard ends. *Hopefully* no less than 10 at a time. Which means cutting the tongues on the ends of the tops will take a lot of router work (unless there's a better way to do it I'm not aware of). And then obviously cutting the groove/mortise in the actual breadboard ends. After a fairly quick search, I've found these (roughly in order of what I'm considering):

Bosch 1619EVS

DeWalt DW625

Porter-Cable 7539

Milwaukee H7022

The Bosch got excellent reviews, and some said it was the best plunge router for use in a router table.

Thought I'd go to you guys before wasting a bunch of time, as I've gotten nothing but quick, accurate advice from this forum. thanks.

[wdwerker]

I have a Bosch1619evs it is pretty powerful and works well. The plunge mechanics is ok but could be better. It sticks sometimes.

The motor in the Porter Cable is heavy but quite a workhorse. I have one in a router table with a lift, so I don't know about the plunge mechanism. I would imagine it would be kinda tiring to use freehand for multiple repeat cuts unless you have a big guy to muscle it around. It has plenty of power, soft start and multiple speeds. I have run mine all day and it gets warm but never got too hot.

Pay attention to the max RPM for larger diameter bits!

[..Kev]

I'm in about the same boat as Steve..  My PC is mounted in my table and I have the Bosch that I use hand held.  I don't use the plunge on this router as I found it a bit stiff.  I also have a Festool OF1400 that I like a lot.

 

The PC is very heavy for hand work, I was surprised at just how big that thing is!

[Jasahan]

Thanks so much. That is very helpful.

I don't know how I would do the tongues on a router table. For very short tables, it'd be okay, but since most of them will be 36" or more, I din't think that would work. I'm thinking some sort of carriage on a shaper table would be ideal, but we certainly don't have the cash for that.

[Llama]

You can certainly cut the grooves on a router table with a slot cutter, also the tongues can be done the same way. There are several nice tongue and groove sets available. Some aren't adjustable so keep an eye out for those if you're planning on using a different thickness for your breadboards. Another option is to use the slot cutter on both elements creating a groove and using a floating tenon, really a long spline, for the completion of the joint. And as ways there's another option, which I saw in William NG's video. He uses a slot cutter in the router table for the mortise, and uses a handheld (Festool) router to create the tongue on the table top.

I hope this helps.

[Byrdie]

I cut my tongues on the table saw with a dado blade.  Grooves all depend if they're stopped or not.  Table saw if they're through the ends, router if they're stopped.  Might use an HCM at either end of a stopped dado too.

[wdwerker]

If you can use a wing cutter to cut the mortice on both pieces you only have one set up to do. Mill up a batch short grain tenon stock to glue into the ends of the tables.

[Tom King]

Get the big PC, but get the multi speed one, not the single speed.  I have a 7539, and use it when it's the best for the job, but for fine adjustments, I like the 7518 better.  Yes, it's a fixed base, but when a plunge is not absolutely necessary, it's easier to set exactly.  I use 7518s in table tops without lifts, and they work pretty easily.  I have a lift with a Triton, but wish that it was back where it came from.  Use one of the cheap digital micrometers for easy, accurate setup.

 

I like the big Makita best for a big plunge router, but when it's a big job, the 20 year old 7539 gets called on.

 

cpo outlets occasionally has deals on 7518s.  I've bought several within the last year for less than 300 bucks.

[Jasahan]

. Another option is to use the slot cutter on both elements creating a groove and using a floating tenon, really a long spline, for the completion of the joint.

I'm interested in this. However, would that be strong enough? How do I make sure the bread board end doesn't pop off? (That the spline doesn't fail?)

[Llama]

Honestly, not sure. I've seen it done like that, but I haven't made one using this method.

It seems like it should work.

[rodger.]

May be a silly question, but can you use a domino XL for your breadboard ends? Marc used dominos in his rustic table build for the breadboard ends.

[Trip]

==>can you use a domino XL for your breadboard ends?

Yes, works well...

[wdwerker]

. You drill elongated holes in the breadboard every few inches before installing it. You glue and pin or screw the middle of the breadboard end only and then put screws in the middle of each elongated hole. This lets the tabletop expand and contract from either side of the center.

[wtnhighlander]

I'm interested in this. However, would that be strong enough? How do I make sure the bread board end doesn't pop off? (That the spline doesn't fail?)

Just be sure that the grain of the spline runs the same direction as if it were an integral tongue. Correctly oriented and assuming the fit isn't excessively loose, it should be just as strong as an intregal tongue or tenon of equal dimensions.

[Jasahan]

. You drill elongated holes in the breadboard every few inches before installing it. You glue and pin or screw the middle of the breadboard end only and then put screws in the middle of each elongated hole. This lets the tabletop expand and contract from either side of the center.

Currently, our design has the pins going in from the top of the breadboard ends. But I guess changing it to the ends of the table could fix that.

[wdwerker]

Pins going in from the top would work as well. You just elongate the hole in the tenon.

[Jasahan]

Well, this has turned from a "help me find a router" post to a "problem solving" post. I understand the pin/wood movement thing. The problem at this point is streamlining the production process withoit killing tools. So finding the right tools and processes is essential.

I certainly like using the "wing cutter" as seen in the william ng video Mel posted. Way easier than plunging down with a jig (at least it looks so).

I like the idea of the splined joints, because routing the tongues is problematic. Pinning from the ends instead of the tops ensures that the breadboard end will stay on. Not sure how to get a 2 ft wide short grain spline, however.

I don't have a DominoXL. But at this point I don't have a big router either. But a router is a bit more versatile, from what I understand. But maybe a domino would open up options for other products in the shop. My big concern with this is how do the dominoes affect the wood movement between the table and breadboard?

[Tpt life]

Common practice is to elongate holes in one piece and only glue the domino/loose tenon into the other piece.

[wdwerker]

The short grain spline can be cut from a glued up blank, or you could use 2 or 3 pieces. It gets glued into a groove in the end of the top so it doesn't matter if it is pieced.

The domino slots in the breadboard would need to be cut at the wider setting and pinned in an elongated hole

[Jasahan]

Well, those make sense.

[Eric.]

I was working on some breadboards today.  It doesn't get any easier, IMO, than a router and straight bit for the mortise, and a dado stack for the tenons...like Byrdie said.  Do you not have a router and a dado stack?  It's nothing more than a long mortise and tenon with more consideration of wood movement...whatever you normally use for M&T will work on breadboards, too.

[Jasahan]

I have a dado stack. Perhaps it's a bad one, because it doesn't cut that well, and the idea of trying to do anything precision with it does not excite me. Also, once we get to 4' tables, I'm not sure how to cut those really square. Maybe a gigantor crosscut sled. I have a unisaw, so I'm not concerned about its abilities.

Right now, for M&T, we use a cheap hollow chisel mortiser and a tenoning jig on the tablesaw. Also not a great situation, but we were able to produce 50 or so "farmhouse"-ish type chairs, with 22 M&T's each. Some joints fit better than others. Some needed a lot of help.

[rodger.]

Well, this has turned from a "help me find a router" post to a "problem solving" post. I understand the pin/wood movement thing. The problem at this point is streamlining the production process withoit killing tools. So finding the right tools and processes is essential.

I certainly like using the "wing cutter" as seen in the william ng video Mel posted. Way easier than plunging down with a jig (at least it looks so).

I like the idea of the splined joints, because routing the tongues is problematic. Pinning from the ends instead of the tops ensures that the breadboard end will stay on. Not sure how to get a 2 ft wide short grain spline, however.

I don't have a DominoXL. But at this point I don't have a big router either. But a router is a bit more versatile, from what I understand. But maybe a domino would open up options for other products in the shop. My big concern with this is how do the dominoes affect the wood movement between the table and breadboard?

I am a new domino user, but if you are doing production the domino XL may be a good choice. You could use it for doing the mortise and tenons for the apron to leg assembly, as well as the bread board ends. The thing is that a domino joiner is pretty expensive compared to a router. But if you need a router and a dado stack, you are looking north of 500 dollars combined I would imagine. So that's a good chunk of the XL.

[Jasahan]

So, back to the router question, I just read a review that said the Bosch 1619evs was a beast to try to use out of the table. Is this true? One reviewer claimed he was a "big guy" and would never do it again.

[wdwerker]

It is pretty top heavy being a plunge router. If you put a big bit in it you better bring some muscles to keep it steady. And in a table setup there is a limit to the diameter of the bit you can retract into the base. The base diameter is small, maybe a bigger baseplate might make it less tippy. Combined with the sticky plunge mechanism it only gets used as a back up table router when I do multiple set ups.

The Porter Cable is heavier and more powerful but the fixed base version is fun to operate. I have a 1 1/2" radius bit, 4 passes turns a 4x4 into a dowel ! I was taking full depth single cuts on red cedar 4x4's and the chips were flying everywhere.