Jasahan Posted April 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2014 The 17 pounds on the PC sounds a bit intimidating. Maybe I need to start working out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdwerker Posted April 22, 2014 Report Share Posted April 22, 2014 It has some heft to swing it up onto the tabletop you are going to cut, but once it was there it is a joy to use. Soft start reduces the jerk when it's powered up. As you feed it into the wood you hear the motor power increase when it starts cutting. If you run into harder grain the motor pours on the power to maintain the same speed and when it gets to softer grain it backs down. Unlike smaller routers that you can feel some resistance and you have to push them this PC just does the work and you guide it along. If you are using a big router with a big winged cutter wear a face shield ! Chips fly quite a distance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom King Posted April 22, 2014 Report Share Posted April 22, 2014 That's what I was talking about, but didn't say. I wish all my big routers were 7518s, except for the big Makita good plunge router, and the 7539 workhorse plunge router. I could do without all the others, except for a few 690s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasahan Posted April 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2014 So...Rockler just informed me that the PC 7538 got recalled due to people getting shocked. Anybody hear about this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuilderBill Posted April 22, 2014 Report Share Posted April 22, 2014 Surprised no one's suggested the Festool OF2200 It's pretty much the Big Daddy of the big-daddy routers. And you can accessorize out the ying-yang. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdwerker Posted April 22, 2014 Report Share Posted April 22, 2014 Nah, step up and get a PC 7518 . I have one of its predecessors which is over 20 years old and still runs great ! The 7518 in my router table is just as powerful and one of those purchases that lives up to everything you expect of it. How often do you run into that sort of quality? My Delta UniSaw is almost 30 years old and I need to replace the 3 belt set again for the second time after it getting daily commercial use. Only thing I have replaced on the original PC big router is a collet that I damaged. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasahan Posted April 23, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 23, 2014 I'm a little concerned with not having the ability to plunge. The only thing I can think of is for mortises where a HCM wouldn't be best. I'm sure there are many other instances. But how critical would that be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-astragal Posted April 23, 2014 Report Share Posted April 23, 2014 My advice is go straight to a shaper. Doing 10 at a time etc is a killer to a router and the cutters aren't cheap and don't last long. A shaper compared to a router is like a chainsaw to a axe. The cutting tools are a little higher upfront but run better and longer and never burn up. A 1 1/4" spindle shaper with a feeder will amaze you! Routers are for hobbiest and that's fine. If you are trying to make money skip a pouter table. Steve 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasahan Posted April 23, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 23, 2014 My advice is go straight to a shaper. Doing 10 at a time etc is a killer to a router and the cutters aren't cheap and don't last long. A shaper compared to a router is like a chainsaw to a axe. The cutting tools are a little higher upfront but run better and longer and never burn up. A 1 1/4" spindle shaper with a feeder will amaze you! Routers are for hobbiest and that's fine. If you are trying to make money skip a pouter table. Steve So this is where I find myself constantly. The woodshop I work in is not a regular business woodshop. It is a non-profit. It only exists to make products to sell so we are sustainable, and to provide a training/employment environment for people who are normally unhirable. In short, our budget is generally small. So the balance I am in is this: Is there a way to baby step to make some products more viable so that we can afford a better tool later, or is it worth it to take a large chunk of the ministry's money to spend on a large/high-end tool now. Up until now, we've either been buying super cheap or getting decent stuff donated. We got a unisaw donated, and it changed our whole shop. We bought a Grizzly G0555P a while back, after killing two crappy, used, benchtop bandsaws. So anyway, everyone's input is priceless to me, so thanks all for the time and advice. Don't know if it makes things much easier in the end, because it's like "Do I get a domino, or a shaper, or a router? What's best for now? Does that matter, and should I just look at what's best 2-3 years from now?" The guy at rockler recommended a Festool sander, and I laughed, but he's like "It will last you a long time in a production environment, and hooked up to the dust collection, creates no dust". Which obviously sounds great, but do I try to do that now, or keep pushin on with crap sanders a while longer? So could you recommend a site or video of a couple decent shapers with feeders, or whatever it is you were suggesting? Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-astragal Posted April 24, 2014 Report Share Posted April 24, 2014 Festool is the bomb. I was going through 2-3 top end angle sanders a year before buying a ro150. Just had one go down now 7 yrs later. Don't think expense. Think investment. To a point at least. Shapers are safer too. Except for doing idiotic things (don't ask). Then they aren't. LolSteve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-astragal Posted April 24, 2014 Report Share Posted April 24, 2014 Buy an old powermatic 27. New belts and bearings will usually have it good as new. Motors generally last a long time but would still be cheap. I've sold 2 feeders on eBay for about 4-500$. Get a 4 wheeler if you can a big heavy one. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasahan Posted April 24, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 24, 2014 Buy an old powermatic 27. New belts and bearings will usually have it good as new. Motors generally last a long time but would still be cheap. I've sold 2 feeders on eBay for about 4-500$. Get a 4 wheeler if you can a big heavy one. Steve Translate please. BTW, I think I have decided for now to go with a big router. Here is my reasoning: 1. Routers are versatile. I don't feel, at this point anyway, comfortable with the idea of a shop without a router. They can do edges and engraving, which I think would be hard with a shaper, and also joinery. Even if I end up getting another machine that can accomplish those things, I think it would be handy to have a backup machine in case work backs up or something goes wrong. 2. We can afford it now. Right now, we have a pretty real opportunity to make some reclaimed wood commercial tabletops for a restaurant/hotel supply company. This is the cheapest, fastest way to engage this opportunity. 3. We also make products out of laminate countertop sink cutouts, mostly kids' furniture. To cut the pieces out, we use a template and a pattern/trim bit on a router. This is incredibly hard on our cheapo router. This product is also picking up. Could we make these with a shaper? Probably...but again, being able to step it up now for less might be good. So to sum up...because we make other products that a router would be very useful for. 4. I am incredibly unfamiliar with the other tools I'm considering (shaper and domino). I've only been woodworking for about 4 years, and that by building this shop up from nothing - no tools or knowledge. I am certainly still in need of info on these other options. We will be (most likely) moving, expanding, and upgrading our shop in about a year, so I need to get educated about these other avenues of production. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted April 24, 2014 Report Share Posted April 24, 2014 I've got both the 7518 and the 2200. They are both great products, but they are very different animals. The 7518 is a dynamite product. With the production base, it's an excellent example of KISS design/execution. On the other hand, the 2200 is an engineering marvel and has just about every bell/whistle you could want. It's heavy and powerful -- not to mention, expensive... The one thing about the 2200 -- it's DC is phenomenal and the only router I've used that could actually be said to have real DC... On a big jib, that's a big plus... There have been times when I emerged from the shop looking like a sawdust snowman... With the 2200, those days are long over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-astragal Posted April 24, 2014 Report Share Posted April 24, 2014 I have a Shelix flush trim head with bearing on a shaper that can pattern route 2" thick oak at virtually unlimited amount of trim cut. Butter smooth no loud whining or burning or tear out. But yes I have routers too I run them in hand for the most part. Keep a nice shaper on your wish list. You will never use a table router again after you get used to it. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasahan Posted April 24, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 24, 2014 Don't know if I'm able to express how thankful I am for everyone's input. Most of the time I feel like I endlessly beat dead horses on here. I take everything into consideration (and likely over-consider). And my "wishlist" is most likely very different from what we will get, or even from what we need. But we have certainly been considering a shaper for a while. So that will probably be the next thing I try to educate myself on. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhighlander Posted April 24, 2014 Report Share Posted April 24, 2014 My advice is go straight to a shaper. Doing 10 at a time etc is a killer to a router and the cutters aren't cheap and don't last long. A shaper compared to a router is like a chainsaw to a axe. The cutting tools are a little higher upfront but run better and longer and never burn up. A 1 1/4" spindle shaper with a feeder will amaze you! Routers are for hobbiest and that's fine. If you are trying to make money skip a pouter table. Steve Channeling Particle Board today? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-astragal Posted April 24, 2014 Report Share Posted April 24, 2014 Yes. I guess I am. Lol Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasahan Posted April 26, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 26, 2014 Thought I would share this with you all. I've narrowed down my choice to either a Porter-Cable 7539 or a Bosch 1619EVS (pretty much identical in features). Trying to find them locally, so tried calling a Sears after finding that Rockler, Woodcraft, Lowe's, and Home Depot do not carry them in store. Here is my conversation with the Sears operator: Sears service person: hi, blah blah, how can I help you? Me: i want to talk with the power tool department. Sears: i can help you. Me: okay, i want to know if you sell a router and how much it is. It's a Porter-Cable, and the model number is 7539. Sears: it's a what? Porter...Cable... Me: Porter-Cable router, model 7539. Sears: Okay...is it like a box, with a table coming out? Me: No. It's a Porter-Cable Router, model 7539. Sears: Exactly how much do one of those cost? Me: I don't know. That's why I'm calling. (I then hang up in disbelief). This person is getting paid. Sad. In other news, I found out that the Porter-Cable router that DID get recalled was the 7518 because something in it wasn't grounded and people were getting shocked by the handles. I believe the Rockler manager said this just happened yesterday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..Kev Posted April 26, 2014 Report Share Posted April 26, 2014 Now that's funny! I'm a little surprised that your Lowes doesn't carry that Bosch router in store. I know my local one does. Grizzly carries the PC router as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted April 26, 2014 Report Share Posted April 26, 2014 Amazon to the rescue. To protect and serve. And ship stuff to you for free in two days. http://www.amazon.com/PORTER-CABLE-7539-4-Horsepower-Speedmatic-5-Speed/dp/B0000222V7/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1398540892&sr=8-1&keywords=porter+cable+7539 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdwerker Posted April 26, 2014 Report Share Posted April 26, 2014 I have bought many tools from CPO. They have refurbished and new tools, this is a link to the new one. http://www.cpooutlets.com/porter-cable-7539-speedmatic-3-1-4-peak-hp-five-speed-plunge-router/pcbn7539,default,pd.html?start=18&q=porter%20cable%20routers They ship fast and I have had great luck with refurbished tools. They go through quality control and get anything wrong fixed, most of the time it is just an opened box tool that was returned for whatever reason. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom King Posted April 28, 2014 Report Share Posted April 28, 2014 I have three refurb 7518s from cpo. I couldn't tell the difference between any of them and new. People probably bought them, got scared when they opened the boxes, and returned them somewhere. If I'm remembering correctly, I bought the 7539 in 1991. It has done a LOT of work, worn out I forget how many collets, and still mills stuff perfectly used in one of my router tops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasahan Posted May 6, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 6, 2014 Ok, so had my first disappointment with the router. The subbase that came with it had an opening that was too small for the bit I needed to use (for doing the mortises in the commercial tabletops; the whole reason I got the router). And of course, no one carries the right one. So back to Amazon I go. I tried plunging it down first and then inserting the bit, but I couldn't access the collet. I tried removing the subbase, but the router wouldn't slide across the wood. It's so annoying because I did a lot of research and bugged all you guys, but neglected to find out that detail. But also frustrating that a $350 router didn't include any accessories. So yes, I should have paid more attention to the details. But I do wish some stores would carry some of this stuff. Don't know if it's a Porter-Cable thing, or what. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdwerker Posted May 6, 2014 Report Share Posted May 6, 2014 Get a scrap of plexi, and make a baseplate yourself ! If you need a large hole a holesaw on the drill press will do the job. I use 3/8 plexi. If you can find a supplier or fabricator they usually sell scraps pretty cheap. Old plexi with the paper on it can take mineral spirits and a lot of rubbing to get off. Another material that works is UMHW plastic or scraps of Corian and similar countertop materials. I have mounted the original baseplate to the new material with double face tape. Carefully mark and drill the screw holes and center hole. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhighlander Posted May 6, 2014 Report Share Posted May 6, 2014 In a pinch, a piece of plywood will do as well! Needs some sort of finish to make it slide well though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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