streaks in the finish with Arm R Seal


Bevans

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Greetings, I am a new member and have been reading numerous great posts on this forum for a couple months and need some advice so I thoughts would ask here.

I drifted away from my tried and true finishing process of using BLO and then wipe on poly. I read good reviews about other wipe on products and decided to use Arm r Seal. I am at my wits end trying to fix streaks on one of the layers. I have a total of 7 layers and I thought that sanding and resetting the finish with another application would fix the problem...it has not. Anyone else have this problem and if so, how did you fix it?

Thanks in advance

Bruce

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==>streaks on one of the layers

I've never seen it, but have read some posts... I think the common opinion is that one layer did not dry fully prior to application of a subsequent layer. I could be wrong, but I believe that's where the thread was headed...

 

Assuming, of course, that you had fresh finish, it wasn't 99%RH when applied, it wasn't 50dF in your shop, you didn't receive a dented can from Woodcraft (just kidding), you thinned it for the first few coats, you thinned it with the proper solvent, you didn't play with the chemistry, didn't add solids to thicken-it-up and the other rather obvious causes... :)

 

==>I have a total of 7 layers

Say what? Tell me you at least thinned the first four...

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Yeah that's a lot of Arm-R-Seal at full strength.  That's overkill unless you're planning to re-enter the Earth's atmosphere in a wooden spaceship you've built. :)

 

Lemme guess...you're using gloss or semi-gloss?  That problem doesn't seem to occur with satin, in my experience.

 

Either what Trip said...you're not letting the previous coat completely dry

 

-OR-

 

Uneven pressure when applying.  Make sure you have a nice fat pad, folded neatly and let it curl around your fingers so that when you lay it down you're doing it evenly.  Light, deliberate strokes.  Lay it down and move on...don't keep going back and forth over one area.  It'll help if you dilute 50/50 with mineral spirits on the last coat.  Light and even pressure.

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I am pretty sure each layer was dry when I applied the next one. It is very possible I did not have even pressure, sound like that was the problem. Is there a repair? Do I use a RO sander and 220 or finer grit to start taking off layers? How do I fix this?

By the way, I have read a couple contrasting methods of applying this stuff. I used straight swipes across the wood. I read that you can apply the finish with a circular method. If you have used it...how did you apply it on the wood?

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I tried to get a picture but the glare from the above light makes the picture hard to see the streaks. It is like someone used a real dirty dish rag to wipe a clean table. I will try to get a picture attached with better lighting but it gives you the idea.

Brucepost-15792-0-68872400-1403746079_thumb.j

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Sorry about the upside down photo...happens a lot with the iPad. It is hard to get a good picture due to the angle you have to view the top to see the streaks. I did a light sanding between coats. Not sure which coat the streaks first appeared but I probably put at least 3 more coats on thinking I could reset the top coat and cover the streaks.

My issue now is how do I fix it. Can it be fixed?

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==>Can it be fixed?

Sure, an oscillating wide-belt or stroke sander cures all manor of things... :)

 

To use a rifle-approach, think we need a photo or two and take a few guesses on how it got that way... Otherwise, it's the 12-bore...

 

==>I am pretty sure each layer was dry when I applied the next one

The more coats, the longer you wait. The can may say 12-24, but not after that many full-strength layers -- we're talking three+ days... A leading cause is lower coats can't off-gas properly smothered under all those solids.

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I will try to get a better photo for review. You make a good point TripleH, I assumed if the coat was dry to the touch it was ready for the next coat. I may have only waited 18-20 hours on some coats. I have been told the streaking could have been too much finish on the rag, not enough finish on the rag, uneven pressure while applying.....all of these may very well have been the problem. I almost took my random orbital sander to it today but since the last coat was applied yesterday I thought it best to wait and let it cure a little longer. I appreciate you guys taking the time to respond.

Thanks again

Bruce

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==>dry to the touch it was ready for the next coat

It's an important point -- folks really need to read the full technical data sheet for their coatings...

 

Every finish has a technical data sheet and they're available in PDF format from the MFG's website... It's everything they would like to put on the can, but don't have the space... They list usually five+ timings: Open, Pot, Touch, Handle, Re-coat, Cure, Rub-out and one or two others that I can't remember... Most folks interchange these times pretty freely.....and run into problems...

 

Lessons Learned: Download the MSDS, DFU, etc for each and every one of your favorite finishes -- RTFM...

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My test for checking a finish is to smell it :blink:.  If you can still smell the solvants gassing off, it's not ready..  Compare the work piece to the open can.  Once the smell is different it's cured enough for sanding / re-coating.  Cure times will vary by temp, humidity, air flow, etc.  High humidity or low temps may extend these times.  As a general rule, 70F+ temps for film finishes you should be good to go after 24 hrs..

 

Can't tell from the pic, but I'm guessing that the coats are going on a bit too dry.  Even if the first coat was dry, a light sanding and a proper 2nd coat should take care of any streaking.  I've found  arm-r-seal should be wiped on (what seems to be) fairly heavy and NOT worked too much.  Let the finish do what it's designed to do and flow out.  Dont' worry too much about it looking smooth initially off the rag; it should look wet without any pooling or sagging... 

 

**  NOTE:  Huffing cans of finish is bad :o

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Okay...good advice to follow,thanks. Could not tell for sure from your response if a solution to the problem is sanding and another coat. This experience has been a good lesson learned and I have been good advice/ideas for the future but I am still a little unsure on how to go forward. It is really had to get a good clear picture of the streaks and maybe that is why it is difficult to advise next steps.

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I doubt I will be able to get an image better than this. The problem with taking a picture is the glare off the surface at the angle you can see the streaks...maybe this image is better and someone recognizes the problem enough to offer a solution. Again, thanks to all who have responded.

post-15792-0-84914200-1403789686_thumb.j

post-15792-0-58322600-1403789739_thumb.j

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From what I'm seeing in the pic, the streaks appear to be following the soft(er) grain within the wood.  If this is the case, when the first few coats were applied the soft grain will absorb the finish deeper than the harder surrounding creating the appearance of streaking when in actuality it's just an un-even surface. 

 

I'd try another coat of finish, BUT when you sand this use a flat block to level the surface.  Do this by hand and not with a sander.  When you make your first couple swipes over a streaked area look to see if it's evenly getting scuffed or if the block is missing these areas.  If it's a matter of un-even surface blocking and additional coats *should* take care of this. 

 

Good luck

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  • 4 weeks later...

Update on the top coat finishing process.

After sanding the walnut table top back to bare wood (twice) I finally decided to spray the Arm-R-Seal on the top. I was very apprehensive about spraying but after talking to the folks at Fuji (I have a mini mite 3) they felt confident that I could spray the finish without thinning it and it should turn out okay. It did end up pretty nice even with the long drying time of the varnish. Just a light scuff coat between coats. I also was in communication with Bob Flexner who was very helpful with advice. Seems as though the satin Arm-R-Seal is extremely difficult to wipe on without leaving the streaks. Although this project was very frustrating and expensive I did learn a lot so that is at least some consolation.

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