woodworker100 Posted July 1, 2014 Report Share Posted July 1, 2014 Hello all, I am very interested in learning how everyone's chairs have held up to the finish chosen. I am looking to start this build over the next couple of months and since it has been a few years now since the initial build, I'd like to learn some feedback on the finish you used. Please post some pics and a few words about what finish you used, if you had to re-apply and how you went about the re-appication (maybe the wood type you used as well). Also, did you cover up? Hope to hear from you all. I'm a new guild member and looking to get my first guild build under way. Loved all the pics. Really great job by all, Fred Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewoodwhisperer Posted July 1, 2014 Report Share Posted July 1, 2014 I believe I used Teak Oil on one chair and Sikkens on the other. Honestly, both have held up equally well in my environment. I actually plan to do a follow-up video for that series showing both chairs, both finishes, and then a re-application of the finish to freshen them up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted July 1, 2014 Report Share Posted July 1, 2014 ==>I am very interested in learning how everyone's chairs have held up to the finish chosen. I didn't build-along on this project... But I've built several outdoor dining and seating sets and can provide five-year finish data... I've used Cypress, Genuine Mahogany and QSWO for my outdoor projects. All finished the same way: CPES then Epifanes and/or Pettit. On the leg bottoms, I attach a 1/8" chamfered pad of UHMW-Pe. Here are some photos taken this morning of a bench (part of a six-piece dining set executed some years ago): American Mahogany with South-American Mahogany to provide contrast. Drawbored loose tenon joinery, tinted-207/403 adhesive (Light Mahagany Transtint)... The bench lives NJ (which has had some tough weather over the past couple of years)... The dining set lives uncovered outdoors 24/7/365 and has survived two hurricanes, one tropical storm and a couple of blizzards... The finish has held-up quite well (If I do say so myself ) Close-up of the leg/apron joint... Closeup of the UHMW-P pad. Holes are pre-drilled, filled with 205/404, then pilot-drilled for #8 x 1 1/4" RH SS screws. Hope that helps you with your outdoor project.. Good luck. <edit> Here is the original sketchup for the table and bench... I'll try to locate the design for the chairs... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted July 1, 2014 Report Share Posted July 1, 2014 ==>did you mean to say African Mahogany?No. American Mahogany is the term generally assigned to Cuban and Honduran Mahogany harvested in Florida, Cuba, Greater Antilles and/or Northern-Central America. These are closely-related species, but not the same. True Cuban is a different species from Honduran. In some lexicon, American Mahogany refers to Cuban only and is available on an extremely limited basis (and outrageously expensive)... It generally sells to luthiers, Steinway, conservators, museums and a few very-high-end furniture makers. Because of extreme scarcity, it's generally limited to repairs/restoration/etc. Old-growth trees frequently yielded 24"+ wide stock. For example, my parents have a 19'x7' dining table executed in Cuban out of just three sticks... I've got a stash harvested about 60 years ago that I purchased from a retiring cabinet maker -- the sticks are a heavy 4/4 - 12'x 17" and wider. I've got one stick a full 24" wide... I religiously keep the off-cuts from this stash because once it's gone, it's gone... Over the past decade, my off-cut pile had gotten to the point where I needed to find a way to use it... So it was either make two hundred end-grain cutting boards or something from the honey-do list... I figured a 'slat-design' outdoor set using what are essentially off-cuts would consume the off-cuts pile without digging-into the rough stock... Mahogany harvested in South-America is often marketed as 'Honduran' Mahogany (to leverage the name), but it may nor may not be the same species as Honduran harvested in Northern Central America... In any case, the growing conditions are different and the lumber is considered inferior to Ventral-American harvested Honduran... Now, just to confuse things, there are hybrids of these species. These are sometimes marketed as 'Genuine' Mahogany. They are grown in Florida, Central and South America. They are also grown on Pacific Island plantations... Although the Pacific-Island is a different species, plantation-harvested and not one of the actual American Mahogany Species (could be a hybrid or separate species all together), it has the singular advantage of looking remarkably like American Mahogany. However, once you apply finish, the difference is immediately obvious. African Mahogany is not a Mahogany at all. It's a group of species that 'look the same' and binned under a single umbrella -- much like 'Maple'... And just like 'Maple', each species takes finish differently. It's unwise to build in 'African Mahogany' unless all the sticks come from the same lot. If you build from different wholesale lots, you could inadvertently mix species and have an unholy mess once finish is applied. I avoid African Mahogany. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted July 1, 2014 Report Share Posted July 1, 2014 Another example of outdoor finish: Restored vintage forged-iron garden bench: QSWO, CPES, Epifanes… Lives uncovered outdoors 24/7/365. Actually, a week or so ago, I promised to send this photo to a WTO member… But I forget who… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Countryside Workshop Posted July 1, 2014 Report Share Posted July 1, 2014 ==>I am very interested in learning how everyone's chairs have held up to the finish chosen. I didn't build-along on this project... But I've built several outdoor dining and seating sets and can provide five-year finish data... I've used Cypress, Genuine Mahogany and QSWO for my outdoor projects. All finished the same way: CPES then Epifanes and/or Pettit. On the leg bottoms, I attach a 1/8" sliver of UHMW-P. Here are some photos taken this morning of a bench (part of a six-piece dining set executed some years ago): American Mahogany with South-American Mahogany to provide contrast. Drawbored loose tenon joinery, tinted-207/403 adhesive (Light Mahagany Transtint)... The bench lives NJ (which has had some tough weather over the past couple of years)... The dining set lives uncovered outdoors 24/7/365 and has survived two hurricanes, one tropical storm and a couple of blizzards... The finish has held-up quite well (If I do say so myself ) Close-up of the leg/apron joint... Closeup of the UHMW-P pad. Holes are pre-drilled, filled with 205/404, then pilot-drilled for #8 x 1 1/4" RH SS screws. Hope that helps you with your outdoor project.. Good luck. What is a UHMW-P Pad? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted July 1, 2014 Report Share Posted July 1, 2014 ==>I have never seen cuban mahogany commerically available and probably never will. Mostly reclaimed logs... There's also a wholesaler sitting on 2Mbf of pre-embargo stock. It's out there and you can buy it... But it's price-prohibitive for new builds... Most goes towards the match-existing & restoration market. A case in point, my parents wanted a buffet-table made to match their Cuban dining table. To match existing, they needed old-growth 5/4 - 12'x24"+...There are guys who specialize in the match-existing market... The table has the Blonde-Mahogany finish so popular in the '40s and '50s --- as a nod to the Danish designs in-vogue at the time and direct reaction against the 'heavy' Euro-designs (English, German, etc) of the '20s. ==>What is a UHMW-P Pad? Ultra-High-Molecular-Weight (UHMW) Poly(P). You can get UHMW, UHMWPe, and about a dozen others: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultra-high-molecular-weight_polyethylene. Very popular in woodworking for jigs, runners, fence faces and about a dozen other things. I'm not sure if I'm the first to think of it, but I started using it for outdoor furniture almost a decade ago. I wanted to keep chair/table legs off the deck to avoid trapped-moisture rot, sliding chairs from scratching the deck and jutting screw heads from grabbing on chair legs... I also use it for pads on my shop furniture (Roubo, outfeed table, assembly table, etc) to act as built-in glide pads... So whenever a critical hinge, screw, whatever falls under my 400lb+ Roubo, I can just slide it to one side, retrieve the object and slide it back... Our friend, Sir Isaac, makes sure that the bench doesn't move when we don't want it to (ex. hand-planing-stock), but moves when we do want it to (retrieve marking knife)... Second Law of Motion... Simple.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beechwood Chip Posted July 1, 2014 Report Share Posted July 1, 2014 I've used Cypress, Genuine Mahogany and QSWO for my outdoor projects. All finished the same way: CPES then Epifanes and/or Pettit. On the leg bottoms, I attach a 1/8" sliver of UHMW-P. I can picture your furniture shaking its fist at a hurricane, yelling, "You think you can take me! Hah! I'm the toughest lawn furniture there is. What was that? A gentle breeze? I barely felt that. Is that all you've got?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Countryside Workshop Posted July 1, 2014 Report Share Posted July 1, 2014 ==>I have never seen cuban mahogany commerically available and probably never will. Mostly reclaimed logs... There's also a wholesaler sitting on 2Mbf of pre-embargo stock. It's out there and you can buy it... But it's price-prohibitive for new builds... Most goes towards the match-existing & restoration market. A case in point, my parents wanted a buffet-table made to match their Cuban dining table. To match existing, they needed old-growth 5/4 - 12'x24"+...There are guys who specialize in the match-existing market... The table has the Blonde-Mahogany finish so popular in the '40s and '50s --- as a nod to the Danish designs in-vogue at the time and direct reaction against the 'heavy' Euro-designs (English, German, etc) of the '20s. ==>What is a UHMW-P Pad? Ultra-High-Molecular-Weight (UHMW) Poly(P). You can get UHMW, UHMWPe, and about a dozen others: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultra-high-molecular-weight_polyethylene. Very popular in woodworking for jigs, runners, fence faces and about a dozen other things. I'm not sure if I'm the first to think of it, but I started using it for outdoor furniture almost a decade ago. I wanted to keep chair/table legs off the deck to avoid trapped-moisture rot, sliding chairs from scratching the deck and jutting screw heads from grabbing on chair legs... I also use it for pads on my shop furniture (Roubo, outfeed table, assembly table, etc) to act as built-in glide pads... So whenever a critical hinge, screw, whatever falls under my 400lb+ Roubo, I can just slide it to one side, retrieve the object and slide it back... Our friend, Sir Isaac, makes sure that the bench doesn't move when we don't want it to (ex. hand-planing-stock), but moves when we do want it to (retrieve marking knife)... Second Law of Motion... Simple.. I know what that is now, so you drill a hole in the legs and then epoxy the holes closed. Then pre-drill for the screw? What advantage does that have? And is it for all your legs on everything? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted July 1, 2014 Report Share Posted July 1, 2014 ==>I can picture your furniture shaking its fist at a hurricane, yelling, "You think you can take me! Hah! I'm the toughest lawn furniture there is. What was that? A gentle breeze? I barely felt that. Is that all you've got?" Yea, it would be nice... and in the grand scheme of things, we fared better with resent weather events than some, but we didn't go completely unscathed... Our area was arguably one of the hardest hit by both the 2011 Superstorm and 2012 Hurricane Sandy -- not in terms of home damage (which was actually minimal), but in terms of site-damage (you know... the stuff not covered by insurance). The area has a long tradition of maintaining trees and open-spaces... Audubon lived in the area, so we've got him to thank/blame... Much of the town is zoned 20 acres, so there are lots and lots of trees... We lost about 50 trees -- probably 70 between the two storms -- many were in the 36" to 48" diameter range (i.e. not the small stuff)... We re-planted somewhere in the neighborhood of 40 new trees (mix of Red Maple, Cherry, Silver Maple, Sugar Maple, Redbud, Dogwood and a couple of others that I forget) and about 30 Norway Spruce... We also planted a two acre wildflower meadow in a spot where every single tree was knocked-flat (BTW: that's an impressive site -- dense woods to nothing... overnight)... But our damage was minimal compared to many... Some folks in our neighborhood lost hundreds of trees with one resident losing a thousand -- give or take (and yes, I really mean a thousand)*... We did lose a table and two chairs from falling tree limbs... And my 16x36 woodshed was crushed... But it all gets fixed... eventually... *Note: It was quickly discovered that the real problem is not clearing and cleaning-up, but one of disposal... Think about it... You've gone to sleep comfortable in the knowledge that the Hurricane has been downgraded to Storm, only to wake up with a thousand downed trees*... How do you dispose of a thousand trees? And the problem becames non-trivial in a hurry --- the electric/teleco companies couldn't even enter the town for three weeks because the roads were blocked... The answer was to appropriate a 20-acre tract of municipal land, setup a tree grinder the size a medium-sized house (and yes, it really was the size of a house) and leasing dozens of logging trucks to spend three months collecting, transporting and grinding... *Note: Actually we were watching a film during the early part of the storm (we've got a generator), and heard (and felt) one loud crash... So we figure we had lost one tree... Not to bad... Only to wake-up to fifty downed trees... Not a good start to the day... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted July 1, 2014 Report Share Posted July 1, 2014 ==>I know what that is now, so you drill a hole in the legs and then epoxy the holes closed. Then pre-drill for the screw? What advantage does that have? And is it for all your legs on everything? End grain and engineered materials don't support threaded fasteners... The technique is common in the marine world... For deck fittings that don't require through anchoring/bolting, the usual process is to bore a hole a bit bigger then the fastener, inject 205/206 with 404 bonding filler, then drill and tap the epoxy for the hardware... The process is termed 'hardware bonding'. West systems has an application note on various hardware reinforcement methods: http://www.westsyste...nding-hardware/ You use 404/406 for tapped fasteners (i.e. machine screws). For threaded inserts that aren't going to be tapped, but require a pilot hole (e.x. wood screws), use 405. The 404/406 cures like concrete. You don't want squeeze-out with this mix. When cured, 404 (and to a lesser extent, 406) really is like stone. Sanding/scraping/etc is really tough going and very hard on edge tools. You really don't want to run glue lines over jointer/planer knives (don't ask me how I know)... If you want sand-ability after cure, look at 405 (my go to filler). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted July 2, 2014 Report Share Posted July 2, 2014 One other note on outdoor finishes... If you look at the bench photos, you see a gloss finish... While it looks great, spar varnishs scratch very easily. The matching table was completed in Gloss, but after a season or so, it looked a bit beat-up... So decided to mix-up some semi-gloss as a way to conceal the scratches... Now, somewhere along the way, I f'd up the mix and ended-up with 'super' Matte... Which looked terrible... The long and short of it: Gloss will show scratches. Matte will hide scratches [almost] completely, but really muddies the grain. Semi-Gloss is a good compromise... What I'd do: Gloss for the first four coats, then add some flattening agent to get a SemiGloss and use it for the final coat... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuzzBusey Posted August 26, 2014 Report Share Posted August 26, 2014 Mine is doing great. I used 3 coats of penetrating epoxy followed by 2 coats of gloss spar varnish and one matte finish (to finish). The wood is sapele. So far so good! I am making 3 more at the moment. 2 for wedding presents for for my son and his fiance, and one for my wife. I plan on doing the same finish on those as well. Buzz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josephrohdes221 Posted September 18, 2014 Report Share Posted September 18, 2014 I liked and learnt many a things regarding wood especially the use of epoxy. thanks very much everybody ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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