JoshC1501 Posted July 18, 2014 Report Share Posted July 18, 2014 So I want to build a new bar top for my basement. There is already one there, but I want it wider. Here are the options I am thinking about. 1) Build a plywood base and put 3/4" cherry on top in either random type pattern of various widths and lengths. 2) Build a plywood base and put the same 3/4" cherry on top, but use two 12" wide boards for the full length. I could probably book match these. 3)Just build it with the solid boards, with no plywood base. Really just curious about my options are their better ways to do it? It will be 12' long, so working with full length boards will be challenging and why I am really not liking those options. Is there a better way to do this? If glueing to a plywood base, what do I need to consider in the build to account for wood movement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodbutcher74 Posted July 19, 2014 Report Share Posted July 19, 2014 Instead of building the base out of plywood, you could frame it up with construction lumber and cover it with panels made of cherry, such as the ones in the picture. As far as joining the top I would cut a kerf cut along the top inside of the base and use clips to screw the top to the base. You can either make some clips or buy metal ones like these. Just an idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshC1501 Posted July 19, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2014 Instead of building the base out of plywood, you could frame it up with construction lumber and cover it with panels made of cherry, such as the ones in the picture. As far as joining the top I would cut a kerf cut along the top inside of the base and use clips to screw the top to the base. You can either make some clips or buy metal ones like these. Just an idea. Sorry if I was unclear. I only need to build the top. The base is already in place. It is actually more of an island than technically a bar. Basically i need to build a 24" wide by 12' countertop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim0625 Posted July 19, 2014 Report Share Posted July 19, 2014 I'm interested in an answer too....Plywood base and glue 12" boards to it....what about movement? WHAT SAY YE MEN?...(and Cindy) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhighlander Posted July 19, 2014 Report Share Posted July 19, 2014 If it is well sealed and in a controlled environment, movement should not be a big issue. Maybe store both plywood and cherry inside the house for a week before construction to fully acclimate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..Kev Posted July 19, 2014 Report Share Posted July 19, 2014 Josh, you'll need to secure the top in a way that allows for wood movement. The clips show above are a good option or, you could make your own. Figure 8's are a decent option as long as you're not going to be lifting this thing up from the top. Some cleats inside the case with elongated holes might work as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdwerker Posted July 19, 2014 Report Share Posted July 19, 2014 If the island already exists clips or elongated holes is your best bet. I have drilled and wobbled out holes then used a round headed screw with a small fender washer . I rub a bit of parrafin wax on the wood side of the washer. This setup spreads the pressure and keeps the screw head from digging in or sticking. I finish both sides of a seperate wooden top to balance the panel and keep any spills from soaking in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freddie Posted July 19, 2014 Report Share Posted July 19, 2014 I did a full back bar build about a year and a half ago. 3/4" Quartered sapele ply glued on top of 1/2" birch ply. Top is 12' long, so there is a seam, but I ever so slightly chamfered each mating piece and the result is excellent. Not trying to sway you in this direction at all, just giving you another option. Also, the the edge is wrapped in a 1 1/4" red oak shelf edge moulding easily found at lowes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim0625 Posted July 19, 2014 Report Share Posted July 19, 2014 Yeah but guys....do you have knowledge on wood movement on the issue of taking plywood and then gluing (i.e.) 1x6s flat down to it? It's inside so that limits movement but the ply would not move at all...what about gluing the 1x6s or 1x12s to it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpt life Posted July 19, 2014 Report Share Posted July 19, 2014 Glue the center, screw the outside edge from the under side through elongated holes. Affix edge banding to the top but not the ply. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim0625 Posted July 19, 2014 Report Share Posted July 19, 2014 So Shaffer you're saying you can not glue the 1xs to the plywood? With that much glue surface, and the ply not expanding, you don't think it would hold? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdwerker Posted July 19, 2014 Report Share Posted July 19, 2014 I have seen solid wood tops with a plywood substrate curl up like a potato chip ! If the moisture content swings from 7% to 25% a 24" wide top will be almost a 1/4" bigger. I learned the hard way when I glued a entire breadboard end on a desktop for a bank executive . It took about 3 months for the top to crack. It had shrunk due to the dry air in an office tower. That was in the 1980's , learn the hard way if you insist, but solid wood is gonna move ! I use WoodWidget app to quickly calculate the amount a top or door panel will move and allow a bit more room in the groove or between 2 walls for the expected changes. Solid wood tongue and groove flooring is installed with a gap around the perimeter of the room. This is usually covered by baseboards and shoe mouldings. In the winter forced air heat dries out the air and you can see slightly bigger gaps between the floorboards. Come spring the increased humidity closes the gaps and the floor widens under the baseboards. This is pretty close to attaching a solid wood top to a bar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim0625 Posted July 19, 2014 Report Share Posted July 19, 2014 Thanks Steve. That was the clarification I was looking for. We do not want any potato chip woodworking. In my house, my bathroom door is a loose fit in the winter and closes with no problems and right now, wants to stick. Same thing with one of my exterior doors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshC1501 Posted July 19, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2014 So here is what I am hearing as an example. If I use 3 hardwood boards wide, on a plywood substrate. Glue the center one, and use screws in elogated holes on the two outside boards? Then make sure any edge treatment is attached to the hardwood but not the ply. I have some wide cherry boards that I can bookmatch for the whole length, so I am considering that option. Likely to have some knots and cracks at those lengths though. Don't mind that look, just concerned with movement and trying to get them flat. Not really setup to handle that length, would need to buy/build some roller stands for the infeed and outfeed side of my planer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpt life Posted July 19, 2014 Report Share Posted July 19, 2014 I am the crazy one who would go a step further. The outer boards need to accept and shed humidity at the same rate as the rest of the top. I would either apply a layer of glue to the underside of the two outer boards or apply a finish with similar characteristics to the glue. The same goes for the plywood not recieving glue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshC1501 Posted July 19, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2014 I am the crazy one who would go a step further. The outer boards need to accept and shed humidity at the same rate as the rest of the top. I would either apply a layer of glue to the underside of the two outer boards or apply a finish with similar characteristics to the glue. The same goes for the plywood not recieving glue. Curious how many people think this is a necessary step? Bueller Bueller....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barron Posted July 19, 2014 Report Share Posted July 19, 2014 What exactly do you want the plywood for? To make the top thicker or to try and control movement? A thin veneer glued to plywood and edge banded won't have movement issues, bit 3/4" thick boards will. If the plywood is for thickness, drill or route oversize holes and then screw the top down. The movement will be along the width of the cherry, so the holes should be shaped to allow for that movement. If you were hoping the plywood would contain the movement, it won't and the suggestions above are good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Byrdie Posted July 21, 2014 Report Share Posted July 21, 2014 I would skip the plywood. It sounds to me like you only want it to make the top more stable and it will actually cause more problems in the long run. If you did a long grain glue joint gluing the two edges together and kept your pieces flat throughout the process you'll end up with a stable joint and one flat piece that will move consistently across its width. The plywood is unnecessary. Edge clips as shown, figure eights or furring strips with elongated holes to allow for movement will all prove to be suitable methods of securing the top to the cabinet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshC1501 Posted July 26, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 26, 2014 I would skip the plywood. It sounds to me like you only want it to make the top more stable and it will actually cause more problems in the long run. If you did a long grain glue joint gluing the two edges together and kept your pieces flat throughout the process you'll end up with a stable joint and one flat piece that will move consistently across its width. The plywood is unnecessary. Edge clips as shown, figure eights or furring strips with elongated holes to allow for movement will all prove to be suitable methods of securing the top to the cabinet. Thanks for the advice. Still have not decided what I am doing yet. Not going to have time to start this project for awhile anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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