minorhero Posted July 22, 2014 Report Share Posted July 22, 2014 Hello folks, Need some advice for a build I am going to be doing in the very near future. I think I have the design I like (but am definitely open to suggestions). I have enclosed some pictures and a link to the sketchup file. I want to make the top out of 8/4 cherry. The legs will be 16/4 something, and the stretcher at the bottom will be 8/4 (possibly walnut, or possibly cherry, haven't decided yet). I have two main questions. 1) Can I get away with poplar for the any part of (or possibly the entire?) base of this table. I would stain to match the cherry top, but my concern is durability. I fully expect folks to use the stretchers as foot rests under the table, possibly for many decades to come. My concern is that poplar might splinter apart under such duress. If I can't use it for the entire base of the table, do you think I could get away with using it for the legs and using the rest of the base as red oak? Or whatever other hardwood I can get cheap locally (I live in Maryland). 2) What is the best way to attach the top of the table to the base? I am concerned about movement. The top is going to be made of 8/4 cherry boards glued together lengthwise. I was actually thinking of using some kind of pre-made bracket and screwing onto the base. I also want to easily be able to separate the top from the base for transport purposes. My girlfriend's apartment will only be lived in for another year. The table will move at that point and the apartment has a narrow hallway directly after opening the door, so it needs to come off. Any thoughts? https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model.html?id=ud02b2c4e-0e0e-499c-8362-82b0861548c4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..Kev Posted July 22, 2014 Report Share Posted July 22, 2014 You can certainly use poplar although, it would be way down my list for staining. Would be awesome for paint. Are you planning breadboard ends for your top? With the rails under the table, you could just groove and clip the top on which would allow for expansion and work well. You could make the metal piece from wood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minorhero Posted July 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2014 I was not planning for breadboard ends but just rounding over the endgrain. Are there any advantages to breadboard ends or is it purely an aesthetic consideration? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..Kev Posted July 22, 2014 Report Share Posted July 22, 2014 I was not planning for breadboard ends but just rounding over the endgrain. Are there any advantages to breadboard ends or is it purely an aesthetic consideration? Will help prevent the top from cupping. If your ends are clean and the humidity in the home is pretty constant, you're probably ok. An ounce of prevention is better than a pound of cure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minorhero Posted July 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2014 Huzzah for breadboards. Now I just need to figure out how to make them So yes I will go ahead and breadboard though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 22, 2014 Report Share Posted July 22, 2014 Poplar is too soft for a table base, in my opinion, and I don't think it looks convincing when stained (unless you are really good). If cost is an issue, I'd use birch or soft maple if you can get them. Soft maple should definitely be cheaper than cherry and easy to locate. It is about as hard as cherry. I would consider painting a contrasting color rather than staining. Flat black paint looks pretty good with cherry. Around here soft maple is only 25% more expensive than poplar (cherry is 2x the cost of poplar, or more). Alder is the other common cherry substitute. It has a similar grain to cherry but is cheaper. It just doesn't develop that deep red color over time like cherry does. Freshly milled they look very similar. Lots of cabinet guys use alder for everything, spray a toner on it, and pass it off as cherry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minorhero Posted July 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2014 Ok popular is out then. I guess the question is, if I used cherry stain on something like say, red oak, and then used the same cherry stain on the cherry top, would they match well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 22, 2014 Report Share Posted July 22, 2014 Ok popular is out then. I guess the question is, if I used cherry stain on something like say, red oak, and then used the same cherry stain on the cherry top, would they match well? No. red oak has a different grain structure. It will take the stain differently. Also, cherry is a pain to stain. It blotches and looks like crap. But it looks beautiful with a clear finish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhighlander Posted July 22, 2014 Report Share Posted July 22, 2014 Ok popular is out then. I guess the question is, if I used cherry stain on something like say, red oak, and then used the same cherry stain on the cherry top, would they match well? Probably not. Any given stain will look different on different wood species. Cerry and Red Oak is not a combination I would choose for myself, but maybe I'm just saturated with red oak. I like the previous suggestion of painting the base or maybe 'ebonizing' it. Black goes well with cherry. I will have to disagree that poplar is unsuitable. It is softer than the other species mentioned, but your design has parts that are heavy and strong. If a tough finish is applied, I think poplar would work fine. I lik! to see close-grained woods ( poplar, maple ) us!d with cherry, as opposed to open-grained woods like oak. Poplar or maple, ebonized with india ink, or painted, would look very nice, in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 22, 2014 Report Share Posted July 22, 2014 Probably not. Any given stain will look different on different wood species. Cerry and Red Oak is not a combination I would choose for myself, but maybe I'm just saturated with red oak. I like the previous suggestion of painting the base or maybe 'ebonizing' it. Black goes well with cherry. I will have to disagree that poplar is unsuitable. It is softer than the other species mentioned, but your design has parts that are heavy and strong. If a tough finish is applied, I think poplar would work fine. I lik! to see close-grained woods ( poplar, maple ) us!d with cherry, as opposed to open-grained woods like oak. Poplar or maple, ebonized with india ink, or painted, would look very nice, in my opinion. People do successfully use poplar for table bases. My only concern was his concern that people will use the stretcher as a foot rest. If you let people wear shoes in the house that could be a problem. My wife militantly enforces a no shoes in the house rule (she will even provide slippers to people who say their feet get cold). so in our case it would probably be fine. That being said, if you painted it or ebonized poplar it and the finish wore off at the edges, you end up with a nice distressed look that people pay extra for . One last option is to ebonize red oak or ash, both of which are cheap and plentiful. Yes they are open pored, but for that reason they do look good ebonized, you can see the grain through the stain. it ends up being a nice effect and can really modernize a trestle table. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freddie Posted July 22, 2014 Report Share Posted July 22, 2014 Poplar would also be on the bottom of my personal list, unless it is what the budget or customer wants. Interestingly, I just did a small trim job in a home office and the customer picked up poplar trim and requested a "beach" like stain color. She picked a min wax water based stain called desert sand. To tell you the truth, considering it was poplar, it came out pretty damn good I think. So, I guess it can be done if you really want to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minorhero Posted July 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2014 Hmm my concern with the top was sapwood. I thought if I stained the top it would not be an issue. My girlfriend does not like white or red oak with a clear finish. She likes the color of cherry, walnut, and wenge. So in an attempt to cut costs I was hoping to use cheaper wood for the base and stain to match. Does beach stain well by any chance? If not this may end up being made of solid cherry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhighlander Posted July 22, 2014 Report Share Posted July 22, 2014 I suspect you have better luck matching dissimilar species if you go with a dark cherry stain. If the grain & texture is similar, you can probably make the color work, but you may have to apply it differently on each species to get the color right. I think that's why there were several suggestions to use contrasting colors. No match, no worries! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..Kev Posted July 22, 2014 Report Share Posted July 22, 2014 I've always had the best luck using materials that I wanted my project to look like rather than stain to make it look like I want it to. Dealing with blotching, color matching, etc is a PITA! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdwerker Posted July 22, 2014 Report Share Posted July 22, 2014 When clients want a cheaper wood stained a dark rich color I go with Alder. There are some drawbacks, it's softer, usually comes in narrower and thinner stock and is prone to small but unattractive open knots. It can be hard to find 8/4 stock . As a table base it will show dings and wear too fast in my opinion. What about going with a contrasting wood for the base? Maple is nice paired with cherry. Before you try staining cherry put a piece in the sun for a few hours, or if the weather is clear for a few days. It will darken up quite quickly in the full sun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beechwood Chip Posted July 22, 2014 Report Share Posted July 22, 2014 On the east coast you may find poplar easier to find than alder. If you search this site for "poplar" you'll find a few threads about staining poplar to look like other woods. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minorhero Posted July 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2014 At this point I am thinking about how to find hardwoods that will be a better color match naturally. Anyone have any experience with pairing cherry with African mahogany? Locally cherry is 14$ per board foot for 16/4 to African mahoganys 8.95 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freddie Posted July 22, 2014 Report Share Posted July 22, 2014 Holy crap! Cherry here on long island is $3.50 a bf. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpt life Posted July 22, 2014 Report Share Posted July 22, 2014 Did you try to source a Bell Forest or comparable shipped Cherry? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardA Posted July 22, 2014 Report Share Posted July 22, 2014 Holy crap! Cherry here on long island is $3.50 a bf. Yo Spud, wanna buy a load and make a road trip? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 22, 2014 Report Share Posted July 22, 2014 I get 4/4 cherry for about $4 and 8/4 for $5. Instead of using 16/4 I might considering laminating two 8/4 boards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minorhero Posted July 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2014 I take it all back again. I was searching around for a different wood sources and I found someone who is selling 8/4 cherry for 5.95 and 16/4 for 8.95. This makes building the entire table from cherry much more palatable. Now my question becomes one of aesthetics. For the big bottom stretcher, I was originally thinking about making that black walnut to add contrast. Any thoughts on how this will look? I realize its purely an aesthetic question. I could just as easy go with Cherry for this piece, but I wanted to add something of interest. I could also go with Hard Maple. Someone mentioned that this contrasts well with Cherry. I don't think my girlfriend likes the extremely light, almost white color of Hard Maple though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minorhero Posted July 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2014 After further consultation with the girlfriend, Hard Maple is back on the table.... har har har. At any rate. The girlfriend wants not only the big bottom stretcher made of hard maple but also the breadboard to have a strip of hard maple in it. So basically I would laminate a 1" piece of hard maple onto a 8/4 piece of cherry to make the breadboard. Is there any problem with movement issues from this kind of arrangement? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..Kev Posted July 22, 2014 Report Share Posted July 22, 2014 You should be fine with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Byrdie Posted July 23, 2014 Report Share Posted July 23, 2014 Personally, I think if you want the look of cherry you should bite the bullet and use cherry. If you want maple as a contrasting wood, use maple. Nothing else is going to prove satisfying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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