pbiron Posted July 23, 2014 Report Share Posted July 23, 2014 I know the 1 3/4 HP vs 3 HP question has probably been discussed to death, but I've never seen a discussion of a few of the particulars of my situation, so here goes... I will soon be buying my 1st cabinet saw. I am 99% sure I will buy a SawStop PCS. I am leaning heavily towards the 1 3/4 HP version and am looking for reasons why I should go with the 3 HP version. I am a "hobbiest" who I mostly cut softwoods (pine, fir, spruce, cedar, etc; no larger than 6/4) and "soft" hardwoods (aspen and poplar; again, no larger than 6/4). I also occasionally cut oak (for jigs) and/or BB ply. I have never had a table saw with more than 1 3/4 HP and haven't had a problem with what I generally cut...but am wondering whether when stepping up to a good cabinet saw if I will find myself cutting more demanding wood. The other piece of the equation is that I'm on a off-grid solar setup that currently outputs 120V/30a. The least expensive way for me to get 240V is to use a step-up transformer which will give me 240V/15a (but even that simple means will cost me about $600-$700USD, not to mention the extra $400USD for the 3 HP SS PCS). SawStop tech support tells me that 240V/15a is enough to run their 3 HP motor. So, given the above info, does anyone think I will be sorry going with the 1 3/4 HP SS PCS? p.s. much of the pine, fir, spruce and aspen I cut is logged from my property with a chainsaw mill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4-Square Posted July 23, 2014 Report Share Posted July 23, 2014 <The other piece of the equation is that I'm on a off-grid solar setup that currently outputs 120V/30a. The least expensive way for me to get 240V is to use a step-up transformer which will give me 240V/15a (but even that simple means will cost me about $600-$700USD, not to mention the extra $400USD for the 3 HP SS PCS). SawStop tech support tells me that 240V/15a is enough to run their 3 HP motor.> This is a monumentally bad idea. I'm in the middle of something at the moment, so I'll leave others on the forum to cover the 'whys'... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim0625 Posted July 23, 2014 Report Share Posted July 23, 2014 IDK on the electricity; but welcome to the forum! Someone here will know the answers. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave H Posted July 23, 2014 Report Share Posted July 23, 2014 If your going to spend $600-$700 for a step up transformer why not buy a generator instead you will probably need one eventually anyway? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick2cd Posted July 23, 2014 Report Share Posted July 23, 2014 I don't know about the electricity side of your question, but I can tell u that I have a 1 3/4hp saw stop contractor saw and I routinely cut 8/4 walnut and cherry with zero issues. I cut 4/4 maple, hickory, beech and oak without issue, but I don't use these woods nearly as often as walnut and cherry. So what I'm saying is, I think u can get by with a 1.75hp saw. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 23, 2014 Report Share Posted July 23, 2014 <The other piece of the equation is that I'm on a off-grid solar setup that currently outputs 120V/30a. The least expensive way for me to get 240V is to use a step-up transformer which will give me 240V/15a (but even that simple means will cost me about $600-$700USD, not to mention the extra $400USD for the 3 HP SS PCS). SawStop tech support tells me that 240V/15a is enough to run their 3 HP motor.> This is a monumentally bad idea. I'm in the middle of something at the moment, so I'll leave others on the forum to cover the 'whys'... 4-square - What part of his idea is monumentally bad?: 1) his 120v/30a solar set up 2) adding a step up transformer 3) running a 1.75hp sawstop 4) running a 3hp sawstop on 240v/15a I also run a 1.75hp contractor sawstop. Like Nick, I have no problem with 4/4 stock of any species. 8/4 walnut and cherry are no problem. I do cut a lot of 8/4 maple and exotics (usally cutting off thin strips for things like splines) and that is where it starts to struggle. I have cut the saw's max depth (just over 4" I think) to resaw maple (taking the max depth from both sides).. It works, but does start to bog down. I can't say the 1.75hp is limiting, but I do wish I would have bought the 3hp cabinet saw. So I would call it a nice to have, rather that a have to have. Also consider what other machines you want. Bigger planers, jointers and bandsaws all might need 220. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardA Posted July 23, 2014 Report Share Posted July 23, 2014 An awful lot depends on the saw's use! Is it going to be in continuous use? Is the saw going to be doing production work? Is it a saw, for building stuff around the house with the occasional construct for a client? Production requires the 3 hp..... everything else requires 1.75! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4-Square Posted July 23, 2014 Report Share Posted July 23, 2014 Now that I've got a couple of minutes... From the numbers provided, sounds like you’ve got a residential 3KVA 120v inverter… and probably a residential 12v or 24v bank... Yes? (and please don't tell me you went Joe-DIY with 6v golf-cart batteries -- while economic, it's truly bad practice)... Your best bet is to hire an electrician and install a bigger inverter – a much bigger inverter… And while he's at it, install a 48v bank... You want to live off-grid, you’ve got to learn to do the math: Inductive load factor (while they both start with the letter 'T' a Table saw isn't a Toaster), motor’s power factor, transformer efficiency factor, inrush current, etc -- see where we’re headed? And no, I'm not going to run the numbers for your two proposed configs... But I'll give you a hint -- one won't work at all and the other will work -- until the inverter melts-down... General rule of thumb is 4KVA for each HP to manage inrush and not run the inverter flat-out… Could you get by with 3KVA -- yea, as long as 'off-grid' still leaves you the ability to call the local fire brigade... And if you regularly contemplate ideas like running a TS on a 3KVA inverter, I'd put them on speed-dial... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbiron Posted July 23, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2014 Also consider what other machines you want. Bigger planers, jointers and bandsaws all might need 220. Yes, that is the kind of considerations I've been thinking about. My planer is a DeWalt DW735x and my jointer is a Grizzly 1182...both of which run off of 120V and do everything I need them to do. I also have a 10" compound mitre saw and benchtop drill press that are 120V. I don't currently own a bandsaw but will probably be buying a 14" benchtop model in the next year, but that would almost certainly be 120V. Another purchase that is most likely in the next year is a benchtop mortiser, which will also be 120V. About the only other near term purchase that might require 240V would be a welder...but I don't know enough about welding to know whether the 120V versions out there would produce strong enough welds for the kind of things that I've been wanting a welder for (e.g., fixing the frame on the snow mobile trailer, etc). p.s. I also do not have any household appliances that require 240V. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbiron Posted July 23, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2014 If your going to spend $600-$700 for a step up transformer why not buy a generator instead you will probably need one eventually anyway? I do have a standby generator for the solar setup, but it doesn't have a 220/240V output (it was a hand-me-down). And since I've never had to use it to charge my batteries (the wonders the sun @ 10,000 ft in the Colorado Rockies!!!), I wouldn't want to shell out for a new generator. Plus, the hassle of firing up the geny whenever I wanted to use the table saw would make it that much less likely that I'd use the table saw :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhighlander Posted July 23, 2014 Report Share Posted July 23, 2014 +1 on what 4-square said. You just don't have the juice to do this. Solar really stinks for high peak demand loads. Use a genny, or go all shaker style and put in a water turbine, with lots of unguarded flat belts driving your various machines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbiron Posted July 23, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2014 An awful lot depends on the saw's use! Is it going to be in continuous use? Is the saw going to be doing production work? Is it a saw, for building stuff around the house with the occasional construct for a client? Production requires the 3 hp..... everything else requires 1.75! As mentioned in my original post, I am a "hobbiest"...I build a lot of picture frames (I'm a professional nature photographer and build frames for the pieces I sell, you can see some of my photography at sparrowhawkphotography.com). I also build cabinetry/bookcases, almost always out of solid softwoods (with glueup panels for the carcases, instead of sheetgoods). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4-Square Posted July 23, 2014 Report Share Posted July 23, 2014 <or go all shaker style and put in a water turbine> Got a DVD gift-set of RoyU's early stuff -- I haven't seen those in years... The OP could go all-in and treadle his way happiness. BTW, if you haven't read the back story on Roy and how he managed to pull-together WoodWright's Shop, pitch it to everyone (and getting rejected by all) and finally convince a small PBS station to run it... It's a cool story... He's been on the air, what -- since the late 70s? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhighlander Posted July 24, 2014 Report Share Posted July 24, 2014 Can't argue the coolness of St. Roy. Without him and Norm, a lot of us would never have gotten started making sawdust. And thank you David Marks for showing us what the high end is all about! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4-Square Posted August 10, 2014 Report Share Posted August 10, 2014 I've got a love-hate thing with DM... Don't get me wrong, I love him... But, when the better-half sees the bent-lamination lamp in Hawaiian-sourced Koa that can be built in just 30mins... Well, let's just say the luv wears a bit thin... (click to enlarge) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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