matthew-s Posted July 30, 2014 Report Share Posted July 30, 2014 Hi - I'm a fairly new woodworker. A project I want to take on is making a square game table (~3' on a side) for the family to play board games on. It will be a fairly simple affair - square, tapered legs. Hopefully a leather center section that I'll be exploring in a different post. I want it to me modern-ish looking. I'd think I'd want a relatively hard wood given the table use. My wife was interested in something that would come out dark (say, dark gray would be nice). I suppose dark browns (say, mocha) would be okay too. I was thinking of going with (black?) walnut, based on some images I've seen posted on the web, but now I'm not so sure. I live in Eastern MA if that helps. I know some woods are regional. Thanks so much! Matt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bombarde16 Posted July 30, 2014 Report Share Posted July 30, 2014 Welcome and best wishes on your upcoming project. Walnut will do the job, but I'm going to be cynical and suggest poplar. If a wife is involved and wants something "...that would come out dark" then that that suggests stain in your future. Poplar can be stained to give her the dark gray or mocha she likes. Cost will be substantially lower than walnut and you'll have great material to practice your skills. When it comes to family members, I've learned from past projects that you're time will be best spent adding details such as curves and profiles, rather than drooling over wood grain. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 30, 2014 Report Share Posted July 30, 2014 --> When it comes to family members, I've learned from past projects that you're time will be best spent adding details such as curves and profiles, rather than drooling over wood grain. This is sad but true. Only woodworkers and really discriminating people care about wood grain. For everyone else, it is color and shape that matter. I will throw white oak, red oak, and ash into the mix. All of them take stain well and have enough grain to look like wood under the stain.. Not quite as cheap as poplar, but close and much more durable. And poplar smells like sweaty underwear when you cut it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardA Posted July 30, 2014 Report Share Posted July 30, 2014 --> When it comes to family members, I've learned from past projects that you're time will be best spent adding details such as curves and profiles, rather than drooling over wood grain. This is sad but true. Only woodworkers and really discriminating people care about wood grain. For everyone else, it is color and shape that matter. I will throw white oak, red oak, and ash into the mix. All of them take stain well and have enough grain to look like wood under the stain.. Not quite as cheap as poplar, but close and much more durable. And poplar smells like sweaty underwear when you cut it. That last sentence needs explaining.............How do you know? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jHop Posted July 30, 2014 Report Share Posted July 30, 2014 I'll throw another monkey into the pot... Plywood substrate and veneer. Gives you stability for the climate (Mass. weather changes can be fun.) and you get a wider variety of options for veneer, including unusual coloring. Plus, you can dress the edges up however you want, and in whatever colors you want. When you say leather, are you going for a matching or contrasting leather? If you want matching, you're going to be looking into upholstery leathers. If you want the look of leather, or you want to tool it (mark it, stamp it, or carve it), you'll be looking at tooling leather and dyes, paints, or stains for leather. You could also finish the edges in a leather wrap, which will match your leather center, to add consistency to the project... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthew-s Posted July 31, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 Thanks. I hope to use this as a experience developing project. I am a hybrid woodworker with a slant towards handtools (I don't like the dust and noise if power, but I do have a table saw). Maybe that nudges some suggestions? Point being, I'm less inclined to go the plywood and veneer route. Poplar was intriguing, but maybe too soft, and can be harder to finish (fuzzy?). Which of the oak and maple suggestions might take the dark stain/dye well? Some grain is nice. It will be a focal point of the room it's going into. Should walnut remain in the running? Related to leather: I don't know that I will have it starkly contrast the table, so thinking black or maybe tan for now. No tooling or leaf. Heck, for that part I am open to synthetic materials. I imagine that will be inset, hopefully in a frame and panel type top, or something with mitered corners. As noted I'll open a separate thread for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhighlander Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 You mentioned a dark gray color as well. Are you looking for a "weathered" finish? If so, a solution of warm water and baking soda brushed on to the wood can accelerate the aging that occurs from UV exposure. Color varies according to the wood species. A brushed or wiped on application of vinegar with steel wool dissolved in it can make a rich brown to purple-black, again depending on the wood species and length of exposure to air before sealing. Also, ammonia fuming does a nice job of aging oak especially, generally turning white oak to a dark, charcoal gray and red oak more brown. These methods of coloring generally penetrate the surface more than stain, and do not "muddy" the grain. However, it is a crap shoot as to what color you actually get, so testing on scraps is highly recommended. Regarding the leather center section, I would consider covering a plywood panel with the leather or fabric, fully wrapping the edges. Then frame that panel into the table top so that the parts surrounding the fabric help trap it in place. Don't leave any exposed leather or fabric edges, they will surely peel. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthew-s Posted July 31, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 Ah. Fuming. I read about that quite a while ago. I suppose weathering might be the tone. Buy I don't want faux wear. It should look like a new piece when I'm done with it. As we chat through this, it sounds like I'm heading towards stain (or fuming), no? If so, which hardwoods take these treatments well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 "Fuming" is exposing to ammonia vapors. I would not go there on an early project. Poplar stains well, but look a little boring under stain. in my experience, open pored woods like oak and ash are pretty much idiot proof to stain. For the gray look, I'd try to find a dye stain or a gel stain. Pigment stains might have black pigment in them, which will deposit in the grain and give you gray with black grain. It will look fine to most people but is a pet peeve of mine. Soft maple is another idea. I have not stained it, but I am told it takes stain well. It is harder than poplar but not much more expensive, if you can find it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdwerker Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 Soft maple will take a dark dye much better than it will take stain. Oak and Ash look great stained or dyed because the open grain shows . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthew-s Posted August 2, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 2, 2014 How about Birch? Where would that fit in? From what I gather it is fairly hard, works well, and less expensive than walnut, and maybe even oak/maple? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdwerker Posted August 2, 2014 Report Share Posted August 2, 2014 We don't get much solid birch in my area. What little I have worked with was similar to soft maple in some ways. If you are still thinking about a dark color dye is going to be the way to go. Birch is light in color and hard enough that staining it dark will not be easy. If birch is affordable and plentiful in your area it should work fine for a game table. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthew-s Posted August 13, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 13, 2014 For those curious, I've decided on Birch. I rough cut and stacked it. I have to say I'm baffled by the acclimation process. There will be variation all year long here in the NE that is far greater than what the wood will see in these two weeks?!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 13, 2014 Report Share Posted August 13, 2014 After rough milling, the moisture content might vary from one side of a board to the other, and from one board to the next. By letting it acclimate, you are making sure all of your boards have a consistent moisture content so that when they do move, they are at least moving at the same rate. Also, the indoor relative humidity will not be as variable as outdoor, so part of the acclimation process is getting the moisture content of the boards in sync with your indoor conditions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..Kev Posted August 13, 2014 Report Share Posted August 13, 2014 Mike is correct. Also, if you get any warping or twisting you still have a chance to fix it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdwerker Posted August 13, 2014 Report Share Posted August 13, 2014 I have learned to have a board or 2 extra on hand in case the rough cut pieces warp, twist, crack,etc excessively and need to be replaced. Trying to buy just enough for a project will circle around and bite you....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthew-s Posted August 13, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 13, 2014 Thanks. I will admit 2 of the leg blanks have cast along their length, by 1/16 or so. I think I have enough for two more blanks. No spares for the rest. I know where to get more at least. What do you think will happen as I plane the legs down? Will they stay, or will I relieve stress and cause more warp? Meh, probably an unanswerable question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..Kev Posted August 13, 2014 Report Share Posted August 13, 2014 Obviously that could still happen but, you've significantly stacked the cards in your favor this way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 13, 2014 Report Share Posted August 13, 2014 No way to find out for sure until you mill them, but if all of your legs end up 1/16" smaller than you planned, just adjust your plan! I have used birch in a project or two. You will have 2 problems when you stain it (1) it blotches like cherry and (2) it is tight grained so it behaves like maple and absorbs very little stain. A dye will help with the absorption but accentuate the blotching. You might have to dye it, use a thin seal coat of dewaxed shellac, then use a pigment stain on top to even things out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthew-s Posted August 13, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 13, 2014 Yeah. I have this feeling that the finishing will consume 2x the build. If all else fails, paint . I'm anticipating opening a separate thread when I get there (as I will with the top). The leg blanks are quite heavy, I could easily remove 1/16 w/o affecting anything. I'm fully expecting to make adjustments along the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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