TerryMcK Posted August 22, 2014 Report Share Posted August 22, 2014 I've bought a lot of West Systems epoxy over the past few years and just bought some more 105/205 quick set. I opened the plastic blister pack and pulled out the hardener can. It felt a bit lightweight. I pulled out the resin and that felt heavy. On the front of the resin it says 1Kg (about 2.2 pounds) and on the hardener 200g (about 8 oz). I looked inside the hardener and saw the liquid inside coming to about 1/3rd of the way up. I thought they hadn't sent enough so I weighed the entire can. It weighs just over 300g so allowing for the metal of the can it does have the right amount in. I hadn't noticed this before. So... why is the hardener can so big if the vast majority of it is fresh air? Is it to make the pump nozzle the same height on both cans? (They're not BTW) Humorous answers please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..Kev Posted August 22, 2014 Report Share Posted August 22, 2014 I'm guessing it's because it's cheaper to manufacture that size container vs a special sized container. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coop Posted August 22, 2014 Report Share Posted August 22, 2014 The last one I bought was about 6 mo. ago and don't remember the volume. I do remember it coming all the way to the top because I started out using this can by using a syringe to measure with instead of the pump as I only needed a small amount. I suspect what Tiods said is probably correct. Working on your gate, are ya? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryMcK Posted August 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 22, 2014 Yes sure am Ken - thought I'd stock up with epoxy as I'm running low in the current cans. Don't want to get to the stage during the glue up that I don't have any left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4-Square Posted August 22, 2014 Report Share Posted August 22, 2014 <cheaper to manufacture that size container vs a special sized container> Exactly. Also facilitates standardized pump sets. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el capitán Posted August 22, 2014 Report Share Posted August 22, 2014 I've bought a lot of West Systems epoxy over the few years and just bought some more 105/205 quick set. I opened the plastic blister pack and pulled out the hardener can. It felt a bit lightweight. I pulled out the resin and that felt heavy. On the front of the resin it says 1Kg (about 2.2 pounds) and on the hardener 200g (about 8 oz). I looked inside the hardener and saw the liquid inside coming to about 1/3rd of the way up. I thought they hadn't sent enough so I weighed the entire can. It weighs just over 300g so allowing for the metal of the can it does have the right amount in. I hadn't noticed this before. So... why is the hardener can so big if the vast majority of it is fresh air? Is it to make the pump nozzle the same height on both cans? (They're not BTW) Humorous answers please. I think the extra air in the can is to help protect the hardener from damage during shipment. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indy Cindy Posted August 22, 2014 Report Share Posted August 22, 2014 Terry, Just curious, what are the dimensions of your can? My can of 205 is about 3/4 full and I have been using it for a while. The can is 2.5 inch diameter x 3 inches tall. It is sold here by volume, 7 fl oz (206 ml). I weighed it and it is over 8 ounce (weight) 240 grams and that doesn't count the part dripping back into the can from the pump stem and obviously the part already used. Cindy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4-Square Posted August 22, 2014 Report Share Posted August 22, 2014 WS 105-series adhesives are sold in letter-coded sizes: A, B, C and E. Depending on which hardener you choose, a size 'A' of 205 will be a different size container from size 'A' of 207. This reflects the different mixing ratios. Just match the labels -- if you order a size 'A' of 105, then match it to a size 'A' of hardener. Pump sets are similarly coded. To prevent mix-up, resin and hardener cans have different sized openings. Containers are filled by mixing ratio -- so a 'quart'-can of 205 won't contain a 'quart' of hardener -- it will contain the correct volume of hardener to mix with the matching letter of resin... Cans received from WS may well appear less-than-full -- some may appear only 1/2 full -- this is correct and should be expected... Again, just match the letters and you'll be fine... Since most experienced users of resin adhesives switch between 3:1 and 5:1 hardeners on a regular basis, it is typical to order hardeners in size 'A' and 105 resin in size 'B' and/or size 'C', depending on usage. In our shop we have 205 in 'A', 207 in 'B', 209 in 'B' and 105 in 'C'. Since 105/206 is the most frequently used resin adhesive, it's stored in the 306 delivery system. While expensive, the 306 allows finer dispensing control and reduces chances for 'human error'... For high-volume users, WS offers two larger-capacity rotary delivery setups -- but these are quite expensive and overkill unless you use 'C' and 'E' sizes on a regular basis. Note: size 'E' is a 55gal drum. Also note: not all hardeners are available in all letter codes. One final usage note: Most woodworkers purchase the 'standard' 105/205 or 105/206 combo for their shops... However, 105/207 and 105/209 offer possibilities that should not be ignored. Under optimal conditions, 105/209 can give you almost an hour of open time for complex assemblies. 105/207 also has a long open time, but it's most useful when you need a clear-drying gap-filling adhesive -- excellent for filling knot holes, stabilizing punky/spalted stock, etc... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryMcK Posted August 23, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 23, 2014 Terry, Just curious, what are the dimensions of your can? My can of 205 is about 3/4 full and I have been using it for a while. The can is 2.5 inch diameter x 3 inches tall. It is sold here by volume, 7 fl oz (206 ml). I weighed it and it is over 8 ounce (weight) 240 grams and that doesn't count the part dripping back into the can from the pump stem and obviously the part already used. Cindy Hi Cindy, I've just measured the hardener can and it is 3" diameter x 5" tall and has 205-A on it and contains 200g. The thread is exactly the same as that on the epoxy can so in theory you could put the epoxy pump onto it but the tube on that is too long so you can't mix them up. The resin can (105-A) is rectangular 4.3/8" wide x 2.1/4" deep x 7.1/4" high. It has 1000g and is nearly full to the top. The 5:1 mix ratio by weight will be right in that case. When both dispensing nozzles are on they both easily go over the top of a proprietary West Systems mixing cup. I suspect the sizes of can have been designed with this in mind. Terry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indy Cindy Posted August 23, 2014 Report Share Posted August 23, 2014 Terry, Interesting. I wonder if they have changed the packaging or if it is different for export. No mention of grams on the containers that I purchased a few years ago. As a useless aside, when I wanted to purchase this product I was ready to place an order but then wondered if some place in town carried it. I was very surprised to learn that we have an actual West Marine store here and even more surprised to learn it is at a shopping center 5 minutes from my house that I drive by all the time and never noticed. Actually, I had seen the sign for the store but thought that it was the Marines, i.e. military recruiting or something. Land-locked Indy isn't exactly the boating capital of the world, all we have are reservoirs and smallish rivers but I guess it is enough. When I walked in the store it was like being transported to the coast, all boat stuff. It was like being on vacation. Cindy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4-Square Posted August 23, 2014 Report Share Posted August 23, 2014 From memory (so I'm probably wrong), there have been two packaging changes over the past decade or so: First: the size openings/threading of the cans was changed to keep hardener pumps from threading onto resin cans (and vice versa). The opening size of the 3:1 hardeners was also changed to prevent using a 5:1 pump on a 3:1 can (and vice versa). Second: The pumps were redesigned and sold in a configurable kit. Before the change, pumps were sold individually. The new pumps are less prone to leaks/drips/etc. WS's 105-system is pretty expensive to get started -- you'll spend about $150 for your first project: http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/show_product.do?pid=3842&familyName=WEST+System+Epoxy+Kit. However, the 105-system has an almost infinite shelf-life so there is little risk of tossing leftover adhesive because it 'went bad'. If stored for several years, some of the hardeners will darken with age. This is reversible -- the process is outlined on WS's website. For those who just need a little epoxy or just want to try marine adhesives for themselves (marine epoxy is nothing like the stuff you get at Home Depot), WS has a low-cost 101 repair kit: http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/show_product.do?pid=759&familyName=WEST+System+101+Repair+Kits. BTW: Gougeon also sells several other lines of epoxy adhesives, just not under the WS label. They also have interesting properties, but more for DIY than woodworking. Under the ProSet label, Gougeon sells high-tech adhesives: http://www.prosetepoxy.com. So if you need to repair a carbon fiber bike or build an experimental aircraft, ProSet will fill your needs... BTW: ProSet also carries some high-strength/high-temp adhesives that are quite useful for Auto, Farm Eqpt, etc repairs... I've used one of ProSet's specialty adhesives to repair a crack my Cannondale bike's aluminum frame -- while the adhesive was pricy, it was way cheaper to repair than replace the frame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom King Posted August 23, 2014 Report Share Posted August 23, 2014 The newer WS pumps are nice-no drips, even though I still keep them in a plastic bin. The pumps come with various lengths of tubing that you can swap for the different sizes of cans up through the gallon size. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarrylR Posted August 23, 2014 Report Share Posted August 23, 2014 Lee valley has a smaller starter kit I believe if you don't want to spend quite as much.. http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=20016&cat=1,110,42965,20016 -Darryl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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