Mzdadoc Posted August 25, 2014 Report Share Posted August 25, 2014 Hopefully that title didn't confuse or mislead but after I built my adirondack chairs the one question I got more then once was how much did the wood cost. I couldn't answer and here's why. Got the cedar at my local (2 miles away) lumber yard and what my plans called for didn't give the best yield. ie knots, staples, and dents. So on my 2nd chair I bought larger boards 1x8 instead of 1x6's so I could rip better sections out. I also bought longer for the same reason. The first chair was about $50 in wood and $75 for the 2nd. Is this a common practice or am I paying too much and in some cases wasting too much wood for a project? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..Kev Posted August 25, 2014 Report Share Posted August 25, 2014 Totally depends on your expectations for the end result. In your particular case, you paid a little more and got better results. I nearly always buy extra lumber (around 20%) to do exactly what you did. I do pass this cost on to the client tho as they end up with the best results I can produce. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdwerker Posted August 26, 2014 Report Share Posted August 26, 2014 Yep, 20 to 30 % extra to ensure you have enough clean straight clear stock. Sometimes it can pay to get FAS grade (firsts and seconds) instead of #1 common, especially if you need long wide clear parts. I just bought 130 bd ft of 5/4 red oak for a bar when I only needed 70 or 80 ft. I needed 125" long clear planks and all the nicest pieces were 14 ft so it can add up quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jHop Posted August 26, 2014 Report Share Posted August 26, 2014 This is the part that has tripped me up more than I'd like to admit. Too often, I've found that the last three inches of a board or panel has some defect I can't avoid. Knots, bent/ warped/ cupped panels, checks, you name it. Sometimes, I've had to get creative with the project.... with less than stellar results. and then there are those miscuts, when the cut wasn't square or the reference mark was off the wrong point. Buying just what the plan calls for is a sure-fire recipe for increased stress. But the budget is extremely tight right now, and the client is me. (Or my wife, which amounts to the same thing financially.) No, you didn't over pay for the lumber. You paid an "insurance premium" to act as prevention for all those stress-inducing mistakes you might have had to cope with. If you want, consider it that you didn't pay $25 extra for more wood; you would possibly have paid half of that or so for some form of adult beverage to relieve the frustrations of lesser wood, and you now have about $15 in scrap pieces, test boards, and matching grain sections, and paid about $10 for the experience and lesson. In my book, that's worth the price right there. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardA Posted August 26, 2014 Report Share Posted August 26, 2014 You have to always purchase more than you actually need, for a variety of reasons. To name a few: Snipe, when milling, knots and or worm holes, spare when you screw up, and you will screw up, discoloration..... There's more, but always buy 20 to 30 % more than you need. And all your off cuts can be used for testing, or smaller projects! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beechwood Chip Posted August 26, 2014 Report Share Posted August 26, 2014 Nearly every guild build starts with Marc buying a ton of wood, and then deciding which pieces he will use based on grain and color matching, etc. I guess that's one of the reasons that "high end" furniture costs more. But, considering the value of the craftsman's time, the cost of the extra wood is not a big deal. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 26, 2014 Report Share Posted August 26, 2014 I buy as much as double what I "need". Mistakes, defects, change of plans, it all adds up. I build mostly stuff for my house, if it turns out good I will want to build a matching piece anyhow. Also, the best prices are far away from home. If i drive 2 hours I can get maple for $2 bd/ft, locally it is $7. So i stock up while I am there. In your case, you were basically using construction grade lumber but building a nice piece of furniture, so your standards were much higher than the grade of the lumber. Higher grades of cedar can be hard to find but would yield less waste. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Byrdie Posted August 26, 2014 Report Share Posted August 26, 2014 I tend to fall into the 20-30% category. It's just peace of mind knowing I can push the board to the part I want to use with a little extra to remove on each end, and, as mentioned above, have some samples to play with the finish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mzdadoc Posted August 26, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 26, 2014 This may sound corny but I'm glad my natural tendencies are falling in line with it common place. I have a great sense of relief that I'm on the right track and definitely on the right forum! Thanks guys!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mzdadoc Posted August 26, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 26, 2014 I meant falling in line with what is common place. Long day....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardA Posted August 26, 2014 Report Share Posted August 26, 2014 I meant falling in line with what is common place. Long day....... Well, pull up a new Adirondack chair and take a load off, and sip some suds. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted August 26, 2014 Report Share Posted August 26, 2014 I pay a premium for the highest quality and most attractive boards I can find. The largest personal cost in any build for me is the time that it takes to build something...the cost of the lumber is a distant second. If I'm gonna put 20, 40, 100 hours into building something, I'm gonna pay the extra money for the quality materials. There's nothing worse than finishing a project that you took such care to build, stepping back from it, and saying, "Damn, sure wish that board didn't have that defect." I do take my time at the lumber yard, and go in with a cut list and buy the bare minimum for a given project. For pros it will be different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wfd55 Posted August 27, 2014 Report Share Posted August 27, 2014 I find that I have the same issue. I go in thinking I know how much I need to complete a project with some extra. Then I fall in love with some grain and want to feature that in the project but of course its in the middle of the board which causes a lot of waste there goes the budget and the extra wood I thought I bought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mzdadoc Posted August 28, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 28, 2014 wfd55 that's what I did at my lumber yard. I had to ask them to cut in half a 16 ft board for the 8 ft I wanted. Luckily they are local small town and don't mind. The kid that cut it for me knew why without even asking and handed me the better piece. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fricasseekid Posted August 28, 2014 Report Share Posted August 28, 2014 Is like to see pictures of what you are talking about. But I for one think knots and imperfections make a project have more character. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pghmyn Posted August 28, 2014 Report Share Posted August 28, 2014 I pay a premium for the highest quality and most attractive boards I can find. The largest personal cost in any build for me is the time that it takes to build something...the cost of the lumber is a distant second. If I'm gonna put 20, 40, 100 hours into building something, I'm gonna pay the extra money for the quality materials. There's nothing worse than finishing a project that you took such care to build, stepping back from it, and saying, "Damn, sure wish that board didn't have that defect." I do take my time at the lumber yard, and go in with a cut list and buy the bare minimum for a given project. For pros it will be different. I like to take my time at the lumberyard, too. But I have a process I go through when I walk into the door. I start with the 4' or less bins. Most of this wood is S&B grade, with straight grain and no knots to speak of, but in a shorter length. I buy the widest boards I can find in here, to lessen the chance of having "reaction" wood. Does this mean it is guaranteed, nope. But I've had great luck so far. If I can't find what I need in there, I go to the #1 Common bins. Full 8-10' lengths of wood, various widths. I don't know why but I never have much luck there. Always just too many knots. Then I go to the S&B bins. Most luck here. Great selection, and well stocked at my place. But, some have even "higher" grade bins like for example the Cherry and Maple. They have specifically Red Cherry S&B and then White Maple S&B. I am making a vanity for my bathroom, and really wanted the clearest maple. I did my process, and ended up in the White S&B bin. This process takes me an extra 10-15 minutes of my time there because I am prepared like Eric with a cutlist to pick through what I need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jHop Posted August 28, 2014 Report Share Posted August 28, 2014 This process takes me an extra 10-15 minutes of my time there because I am prepared like Eric with a cutlist to pick through what I need. I think my problem is I walk in without having even a project in mind.... maybe that's why there's a growing collection in my shop... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted August 28, 2014 Report Share Posted August 28, 2014 That's becoming a problem in my shop, too. I'm still "working" up at the yard on Saturdays...that is, shootin' the breeze with other woodworkers for 8 hours and helping beginners through their projects. Problem is, I have first pick of all the fresh shipments that come through the door, and plenty of time to look through all of it...and a steep discount...which means I find these amazing sticks that just have to go home with me even though I have no earthly idea what I'm gonna do with 'em. Last weekend I bought a 10' long by 12" wide piece of 8/4 bubinga just because I had to...perfectly rift-sawn and flawless from end to end. Beautiful. Had no choice. Squeezed it up in the rack where it will probably live for a decade. I'm definitely running out of space. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freddie Posted August 28, 2014 Report Share Posted August 28, 2014 Kiki, that must have been a real heavy board! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted August 28, 2014 Report Share Posted August 28, 2014 Just about killed me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fricasseekid Posted August 29, 2014 Report Share Posted August 29, 2014 Sound like lumber snobs to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpt life Posted August 29, 2014 Report Share Posted August 29, 2014 Don't agree. Project determines usage. Different boards are for different projects. Not all are rustic, but some certainly are. Not all are gilt, but one recently was. Just because your project is great with inclusions does not mean theirs had to be. Snobbier would be to talk your projects down because they feature inclusions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdwerker Posted August 29, 2014 Report Share Posted August 29, 2014 I like to keep small pin knots and other minor imperfections where ever possible. To me it is proof that it's solid wood, not veneer. But when I see a nice clean wide piece of wood I snap it up. One of my finds was a stack of 4/4 red oak planks 10" to 13" wide with beautiful grain patterns , now they are getting used in a bar project to great advantage. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fricasseekid Posted August 29, 2014 Report Share Posted August 29, 2014 Well I have a recent biased opinion.... The other day I watched Marks video about different species of wood and how they weather. He milled down a few different boards that had been out doors for some time. For half of them he said that he'd never use something like that in any build. It really bothered me cause I use lots of reclaimed lumber and any people love that about my work. All of the wood he had in his video looked gorgeous to me. There is something spiritual in the belief that our scars and imperfections make us whole and more beautiful. You know? I pride myself on letting that show in all my work. Although I do not turn out what I would consider to be "fine woodwork", I hope I don't ever get to the point that I use so much discretion that my work loses it's character. I would like to see more distressed and rustic top pieces on Marks video and on these forums. They are quite popular these days and have their own sense of character. Especially when the looks isn't achieved through faux methods. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fricasseekid Posted August 29, 2014 Report Share Posted August 29, 2014 Sorry for the thread jacking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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