pghmyn Posted September 10, 2014 Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 About my basement. I plan to finish the basement, as you probably have heard me talk about already. The basement is warrantied to be waterproof for 20 years, and it is living up to that promise so far. I have radon abatement installed, and that helps tremendously with the humidity. But, on those stand out 90% + humidity days, I run the stand alone dehumidifier as well. Works a charm. So now that I know I can keep a good climate down there, it is now down to planning the work in the future. I am either going to do a laminate wood flooring or tile. I have yet to decide, but I am leaning toward tile. Non-organic, wont mold, roughly same cost, and I can learn to do it myself. But the biggest problem is my floor slab. I can see the irregularities in the floor from water that leaked into the basement from a window I left open during a rain storm. I don't have numbers of height differentials, but there are hills and dips in the cement. I know laminate wood flooring wouldn't jive well with this, and I am most certain tile wouldn't either. I need to get a long level down there and get an idea of what I'm dealing with. But for arguments sake, lets say there is a 1" difference I have to deal with. Should I pour a layer of self leveling compound or grind off high spots? OR a combination of both? Maybe there is another method I am missing? I do not want to finish the ENTIRE basement. Just about half of it. So that negates getting the entire basement level, possibly saving some headaches. The laundry room and storage can keep the slab floor. Those rooms don't need to look pretty. Any ideas on what I should do with my basement floor? Hoping maybe one or a few of you have experience with a similar situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardA Posted September 10, 2014 Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 Hi Sam... I'm not going to be much help, I only owned one house with a basement, In [god forbid] New Jersey... I just used self leveling concrete mix, and left it at that! See, not much help! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..Kev Posted September 10, 2014 Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 Have you considered rubber mats Sam? I realize it's not a "permanent" floor solution but, it does have some upside. Will absorb sound, is removable if moisture is an issue, is probably less expensive, and provides cushion for the feet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpt life Posted September 10, 2014 Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 One moisture problem and you will have to replace most laminate so I always vote that down in a basement that does not have years of trustworthiness in record damp seasons. Self leveling is how I would go unless this creates a headspace issue. It is much simpler than grinding. In fact, it is generally easier to cut out a section and repour if much grinding needs to be done. Efficient and fast working grinders are difficult to get to basement level without a walkout. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted September 10, 2014 Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 Self-level then tile...that's what I'm planning for my basement bar. Laminate is for losers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChetlovesMer Posted September 10, 2014 Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 kiki, Guess I'm a loser... bummer. On some level I guess I always knew I was but it took Kiki to confirm I form me. Sam, I've had laminate in my basement for going on 15 years now and it's held up to the point where it still looks brand new. If you buy quality laminate, and a high quality underlayment, you won't have a problem and in reality I find laminate covers floor variations even better than tile. Having said that you will still need to level what you have. There aren't many products that will cover a 1" difference in height. Tile, laminate it doesn't matter, the same rule always applies: "The better the floor you start with, the better your results will be." Same is true in wood working, the better your project is built the better it will look with a finish on it. May I suggest a 3rd option? They now have peel and stick, tiles that look like laminate flooring. It comes under a number of different brand names, but it's usually called "Peel and Stick Vinyl Plank" or "Peel and Stick Vinyl Laminate." Many of these products are guaranteed even if submerged in water. Here's the kicker... you will want to get your floor pretty level before applying. The advantages are fairly inexpensive, goes down quick, pretty robust product and no special tools required. Just a thought. Good luck with your project. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpt life Posted September 10, 2014 Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 I just want to tag this after Chet's. One event with water deeper than the underlayment is all it takes. This could be ground water, or it could be a failed pipe. Weigh the risk. Laminate is not the devil, but its downside must be considered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted September 10, 2014 Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 Sorry Chet. Not that I called you a loser but that you have laminate and that makes you one. Kidding, of course. Let's amend it...everyone else with laminate is a loser, but not you. Would it be more or less rude to say a woodworker should be ashamed to have laminate floors? When we moved into our current house, the kitchen, dining room and hallway all had laminate. About six months later, the ice maker line on the fridge popped loose and leaked on the floor. Buckled, ruined, done, over, gone...with one minor incident. Turned out to be a blessing because insurance gave us 5k for the damage and that was enough for me to buy porcelain tile for the kitchen and solid Brazilian Koa for the rest of the house. Nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChetlovesMer Posted September 10, 2014 Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 I've got 3 words for you: "Make sure to check your homeowner's insurance." ... maybe that's 5 words... I went to Chicago Public Schools so math isn't really my strong suit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pghmyn Posted September 10, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 Thanks for the replies. This project wont be for over a year now...at least. This gives me time to perfect everything and get it all done at once instead of starting the project then running out of funds. I will get to see my basement in the typical Wisconsin rainy fall/early winter, then the heavy melt off of all the snow that drops. I have had at least 2 days now where the rain fell, and fell all at once. A parking lot by my house had a flash flood with almost 2 ft of water in about 10-15 minutes. Not one single drop made its way into my basement. This was before I took that basement window off to clean the sill and forget to put the glass window frame back on... I do not like the peel and stick laminate tiles, sorry to say. I looked at them in the store and they are not for me. I like the ease of laminate wood flooring, and I know I can do my basement in a couple hours. Tile is another story, yet it does have major upsides. I am going to measure the big differences in the floor height, and ceiling height tonight. I'll get an idea of what to prepare for Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freddie Posted September 10, 2014 Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 If you buy laminate, you will burst into flames at the checkout counter. I've seen it happen! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pghmyn Posted September 11, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 11, 2014 If you buy laminate, you will burst into flames at the checkout counter. I've seen it happen! For arguments sake, say I go with tile. What tools are required to get the best possible results when laying the tile? Start to finish, what would I need to invest in? How expensive are these tools, compared to already having the tools to lay a laminate floor? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted September 11, 2014 Report Share Posted September 11, 2014 Rent a tile cutter and buy a notched trowel and a grout float. You're set. Maybe a big ass mixer thing for your 1/2" drill to mix the thin-set and grout...but that's just a convenience thing. Laying tile is easy-peasy if you got okay knees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pghmyn Posted September 11, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 11, 2014 Rent a tile cutter and buy a notched trowel and a grout float. You're set. Maybe a big ass mixer thing for your 1/2" drill to mix the thin-set and grout...but that's just a convenience thing. Laying tile is easy-peasy if you got okay knees. So it's as easy as that? I really have never touched a tile in my life, other than picking one up and looking at it in the store. Are there different methods for different materials or sizes? Is thin-set a general term? I've heard it on DIY shows, but not sure if that is used all the time. What size tile would be the best to use for my basement? Is tile to OSB fine, or should I put something else down like those orange membranes? Or, are those just for bathrooms because of moisture? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted September 11, 2014 Report Share Posted September 11, 2014 There are a bunch of types of thin-set...you'll have to research that yourself to decide what's best for your specific application. Thin-set is a generic term like Band-Aid. Size of tile is a judgment call. The conventional wisdom is the bigger the room, the bigger the tile...with a million exceptions. Depends entirely on the look you want. I used 12" in my kitchen. No, you can't lay tile directly on top of OSB, or at least that's my understanding. You need to put down a sub-layer of that Hardibacker or other type of cement board. It's a PITA and an extra expense, but necessary and worth it in the long run. The moisture barrier thing I can't help you with...didn't bother with it in my kitchen. Disclaimer: I'm not a tile expert. Not even close. So look for many second opinions. The above is just some of my understanding, right or wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pghmyn Posted September 11, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 11, 2014 There are a bunch of types of thin-set...you'll have to research that yourself to decide what's best for your specific application. Thin-set is a generic term like Band-Aid. Size of tile is a judgment call. The conventional wisdom is the bigger the room, the bigger the tile...with a million exceptions. Depends entirely on the look you want. I used 12" in my kitchen. No, you can't lay tile directly on top of OSB, or at least that's my understanding. You need to put down a sub-layer of that Hardibacker or other type of cement board. It's a PITA and an extra expense, but necessary and worth it in the long run. The moisture barrier thing I can't help you with...didn't bother with it in my kitchen. Disclaimer: I'm not a tile expert. Not even close. So look for many second opinions. The above is just some of my understanding, right or wrong. Any information you have from previous experience is good to know. I was thinking 12" tile would be the best. I read into that orange membrane a bit more, and vaguely understand a little more of the use. When you put it on a wood subfloor, the wood is going to move. But the tiles should not, otherwise they will crack. So, the membrane being rubber, it can move around under the tiles just a little, and keep the tiles exactly where they are. If that is 100% true, I'm not sure, but it makes sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpt life Posted September 11, 2014 Report Share Posted September 11, 2014 You just need a purpose made underlayment. I have seen millions of square feet of tile set over 1/4" ply underlayment, even in bathrooms. Remember that each tiler's preference is based on experience but is still only an opinion. If their way makes you nervous, there is likely another option. I may have missed this, why the reference to OSB? Are you building the floor up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pghmyn Posted September 11, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 11, 2014 You just need a purpose made underlayment. I have seen millions of square feet of tile set over 1/4" ply underlayment, even in bathrooms. Remember that each tiler's preference is based on experience but is still only an opinion. If their way makes you nervous, there is likely another option. I may have missed this, why the reference to OSB? Are you building the floor up? I am going to lay that black dimpled membrane material on the floor, up the wall a little, and then lay OSB on top for the subfloor. Or so that is the plan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChetlovesMer Posted September 11, 2014 Report Share Posted September 11, 2014 Okay, now you have me confused. So you have concrete... which might be the most ideal surface onto which to lay tile and you are going to cover the concrete with OSB? OSB is a product which will rot when it gets wet. I thought you chose to go with tile because it could better survive moisture in your basement. Unless you think you may want to one day remove the tile, and even then it would be debatable, lay the tile on the concrete. You will want to make sure your concrete is level, clean and sealed. After than put the thinset down on top of the concrete with nothing else in between. I've laid a bunch of tile on 1/4 ply (although I much prefer concrete board) but that's only when putting it on a first story or second story sub-floor. If you have concrete and want tile, PUT THE TILE ON THE CONCRETE! Adding anything else just makes places for bugs to live, moisture to gather or mold to grow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pghmyn Posted September 11, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 11, 2014 What about the basement floor being so cold? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freddie Posted September 11, 2014 Report Share Posted September 11, 2014 Concrete does not require an underlayment. Self leveling or mud floor at most. Underlayments are required over wood substrates to prevent movement and cracking tiles and grout lines. Some people go with flexible membranes over subfloors, some use cement board, some wire lath and mud the subfloors. For your basement you want to get your floor as flat as possible before you run into complications during the install. The bigger the tile, the harder it will be to lay them all flat with eachother. Think of hand planes. The smaller smoother will conform to small itregularities in the surface unlike a jointer plane. Also look into the tile you want to install. The easiest install would require only a tile cutter for score and snap, unlike having to rent a wet saw. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChetlovesMer Posted September 11, 2014 Report Share Posted September 11, 2014 Right on, Freddie! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChetlovesMer Posted September 11, 2014 Report Share Posted September 11, 2014 Freddie, Personally, I like the look and feel of a thicker industrial tile. I don't rent a wet saw however. I have found that a diamond blade in the right angle attachment of my rotozip tool works well no matter how thick the tile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpt life Posted September 11, 2014 Report Share Posted September 11, 2014 Self level gypcrete with heating tubes embedded. No cold:-) Seriously, I have no clue what gypcrete costs or if you can tile over it. What about the cold has you concerned? In a closed space, that floor should not see frost. If it does, you just have to keep the humidity down as the climate cools so that there is not enough moisture to cause any bursting pressure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freddie Posted September 11, 2014 Report Share Posted September 11, 2014 C, that basement floor will never see frost, as it is way below the frost line. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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