minorhero Posted September 13, 2014 Report Share Posted September 13, 2014 Hello again folks, Now that the Dining room table (seen ) is in the finishing stage. It is time to start thinking about the matching bench. My girlfriend has been quite pleased with the progress of the table and is quite excited about getting it in her place. But from almost the second I have told her I wanted to build her a proper table she has been asking for a matching bench to go with it. With that in mind I have come up with a design that I think will match the table but I have some concerns. My first concern is how do I attach the top of the bench to the base. (sound familiar? ) On the one hand I know I can use a similar hardware option as the dining room table with metal pieces in place to hold the thing together and allow for wood expansion. On the other hand the bench will only be 16" wide and thus should have less then half as much wood expansion as the 36" wide table. I really want to just glue the bench top right to the apron and to the 4 legs. But I am concerned that wood expansion will split seams etc. What is the best method? My second concern is structural stability. I am planning to make the 4 legs out of 10/4 cherry. All other pieces will be made out of 6/4 cherry with two pieces being made out of 6/4 hard maple. The long aprons that stretch the length of the bench will be 2.5" wide and have a tenon that goes 3/4" into the leg. I want the bench to be able to support at least 500 lbs if it needs to. Is this going to be adequate? I feel like if I am gluing the top to the aprons and legs it will lend a lot of structural stability and I will be fine. If I am not gluing the top to the legs and instead letting it kinda float with hardware holding it more or less in place, then I worry it wont be enough. As far as wood goes the whole thing is cherry except the long stretcher on the bottom will be hard maple and the center strip on the top will also be hard maple. Thoughts? Here is a link to the google sketchup model And here are some pictures of the model Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..Kev Posted September 13, 2014 Report Share Posted September 13, 2014 I would attach the same way you did the table. You didn't state how long these benches will be so, I figured 36", 48" and 60" in the Sagulator. 36" and 48" showed acceptable and 60" came up with excessive sag. I would suggest you running your numbers in the Sagulator in case I missed something. http://www.woodbin.com/calcs/sagulator.htm 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minorhero Posted September 13, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 13, 2014 Thank you for the link! The sagulator seems setup for bookshelves and doesn't seem to take into account that there are two aprons or as the sagulator calls it, two edging strips. The total length of the bench is 6 feet. This gives a sag of .42" at 600 lbs, but again without 2 aprons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..Kev Posted September 13, 2014 Report Share Posted September 13, 2014 A bench is just a book shelf for butts. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llama Posted September 13, 2014 Report Share Posted September 13, 2014 A bench is just a book shelf for butts. funniest thing I've read all day! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minorhero Posted September 13, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 13, 2014 Heh true. But having 1 apron seems to make a big difference in sag, I would think having 2 would be even more important. Either way you think I would have problems with wood movement if I glued the whole thing together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..Kev Posted September 13, 2014 Report Share Posted September 13, 2014 Double the size of the "strip" in the Sagulator and run it again. That should account for the apron on each side. It's my opinion that gluing it solid has the potential to create more issues than it solves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minorhero Posted September 14, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 14, 2014 Hmm if I go by the sagulator then my design is essentially a non-starter. Even if I made my aprons 9" deep with one on each side, then according to the sagulator it would still sag by .29" This frankly does trips some alarms in my head regarding the sagulator but I will error on the side of caution and rethink my design. I do not want to add a third leg in the middle, but I might have to do that. Another idea is to make the short sided aprons the same thickness as the legs and add a third apron going across in the middle. According to the Sagulator this makes very little difference, but I am not sure I believe that thing heh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..Kev Posted September 14, 2014 Report Share Posted September 14, 2014 That is a long stretch but, better to work out the details now. I show it as borderline at your length. Do you have the load centered or uniform? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..Kev Posted September 14, 2014 Report Share Posted September 14, 2014 So, I ran the numbers again and changed your aprons to 3 inches instead of 2.5 inches and it came up aces! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minorhero Posted September 14, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 14, 2014 I tried it with the 3 inch aprons and it showed .46" deflection. Are you computing the load as a fixed top, as a opposed to a floating top? I would figure that unless I glue it down it should be considered a "floating" top correct? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..Kev Posted September 14, 2014 Report Share Posted September 14, 2014 It's still fixed. You'd just be mounting in such a way as to allow natural wood movement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdwerker Posted September 14, 2014 Report Share Posted September 14, 2014 Kev is right Sagulator is very helpful. Your bench would be a fixed shelf. Make the edge strip the shelf plus the apron, it doesn't matter if it's under the shelf or attached to the front of the shelf . I haven't run your numbers but if Kev has you should be good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdwerker Posted September 14, 2014 Report Share Posted September 14, 2014 If you are using 6/4 cherry and maple to build the bench top and 3" aprons you are good to go! Got curious and ran the sag on it 0.03 total is quite acceptable. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minorhero Posted September 14, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 14, 2014 Ok 3" aprons it is! Next up will be buying the wood Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..Kev Posted September 14, 2014 Report Share Posted September 14, 2014 I look forward to seeing the build! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minorhero Posted September 19, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 19, 2014 Well with the table complete its time to be moving onto the next project, and in this case the next project is the matching bench. Today I went down to the hardwood seller and picked through their boards. I was a bit more careful this time in the boards I selected. Unfortunately they did not have enough 6/4 cherry in wide enough selections to make the top out of 6/4 cherry. So instead I went down to 5/4 cherry for the top, the aprons are still in 6/4. I will have to make the stripe of maple a bit bigger then I intended, but otherwise things went pretty well. Here are some pictures of the lumber after I moved it to the shop. Now it just needs to get acclimated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..Kev Posted September 19, 2014 Report Share Posted September 19, 2014 Sweet lumber pile! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coop Posted September 19, 2014 Report Share Posted September 19, 2014 Applewood, being nosey if you don't mind me asking? What did you have to pay for the 6/4 cherry? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minorhero Posted September 19, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 19, 2014 I don't mind asking. The total cost was 300 dollars. The 6/4 cherry was 5.50 the 5/4 cherry was 4.95, the 10/4 cherry was 6.95 and the 6/4 hard maple was 4.75 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardA Posted September 19, 2014 Report Share Posted September 19, 2014 Sweet lumber pile! I like wood! I like wood a lot! I even like the trees wood comes from. After rereading what I just typed, I think I've had tee many martoonies! But I still like wood! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coop Posted September 19, 2014 Report Share Posted September 19, 2014 Richard, to help tie this into the topic, I think I'll go sit on a "wooden bench" and have a shot of Don Julio OBTW, how do you feel about wood On the price of the wood, thanks, just wanted to get a comparison and ours is just about the same. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minorhero Posted September 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 25, 2014 Not much to report but I did get into the shop a bit today. I used the time to go ahead mill the wood flat on 3 sides. I am pretty pleased with my wood this time around. Definitely got some better looking boards this time from the lumberyard when compared to last time for the table. It really pays to go over the boards with a fine tooth comb when looking at them. The 10/4 cherry is to the left obviously. Just next to that is the 6/4 maple, and the 5/4 cherry for the top of the bench is all the way to the right. I am considering putting both cherry boards into the middle of the bench and then splitting a piece of maple up and gluing two strips of maple to either side of the cherry instead of one strip down the middle of the two cherry boards. This change is because the board to the far right is really a very pretty board and is quite wide at around 10". I think I want to preserve that wideness rather then cut the board down to about 6" wide so it will match the usable area of the other 5/4 board. I also took some time and dug out the loose knots and then filled them in with epoxy died black. I used a heat gun this time to get rid of air bubbles. It also has the added benefit of making the epoxy much more liquidy which makes it sink in considerably better. Tomorrow I should get a chance to cut the legs and start making the tenons and mortises. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..Kev Posted September 25, 2014 Report Share Posted September 25, 2014 Looks like progress! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coop Posted September 25, 2014 Report Share Posted September 25, 2014 SWEET Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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