duckkisser Posted September 19, 2014 Report Share Posted September 19, 2014 I have a build that I think would be really cool but with my lacking of knowledge in musical instrument making I would need help. I can make a bowl that I know how to do. It's the wood selection and the placement of the strings that I don't even know where to start. Do you guys think we could figure this out? http://www.soundingbowls.com/bowls_meditation.htm https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=q65XygDFiAI http://featheredwoodworking.wordpress.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpt life Posted September 19, 2014 Report Share Posted September 19, 2014 Duck, I have no doubt you can figure this out. I cannot say how much trial and error you will need to invest. Wooden tuning keys are likely taper/friction fit like violins. There are many resonant species of wood. Guitar bodies are thinner, xylophones and marimbas are thicker. This may not matter so much though. The bowl may just reflect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duckkisser Posted September 19, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 19, 2014 I'm thinking it's more like a open faced lyre or harp as the strings Are all the same size Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indy Cindy Posted September 19, 2014 Report Share Posted September 19, 2014 I have a build that I think would be really cool but with my lacking of knowledge in musical instrument making I would need help. I can make a bowl that I know how to do. It's the wood selection and the placement of the strings that I don't even know where to start. Do you guys think we could figure this out?http://www.soundingbowls.com/bowls_meditation.htmhttps://m.youtube.com/watch?v=q65XygDFiAIhttp://featheredwoodworking.wordpress.com Very cool but the guy has a copyright. You need to contact him if you want to do this. Read this. http://www.soundingbowls.com/copy.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duckkisser Posted September 19, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 19, 2014 I have waiting for a response I'm more interested in learning to make them rather then in making them for people as gifts or to sell. It will probably sit on a shelf or hang on a wall collecting dust especial since I have no music talent. Mostly want to learn for the sake of learning. I can always change the basic design. Not really sure how you can copyright this since it's basically just a round guitar without a neck or a wooden Tebet singing bowl with strings. It's like copyrighting flute or guitars. You can copyright Gibson and their unique style but a guitar is just a resonating body, neck and strings. If I have too I'll learn to make and when done burn it never making again. Or add in a drum head or a snare making it into a singing drum bowl then it's mine to do what I like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wouldwurker Posted September 19, 2014 Report Share Posted September 19, 2014 I've no luthier, but as a guitar player I can give you my initial thoughts. Buy tuning pegs and bridge pins for an acoustic guitar. Pins are cheap, cheap tuning pegs are cheap too If you don't play, borrow an acoustic just to get a feel for the mechanics. The most important thing would be to have the string unencumbered by the bowl itself, including the holes it passes through. As such, I'd leave plenty of room within the hole for vibration (frequency). Since the holes are close to the ends, the least amount of vibration will happen here <think of a soundwave>. Because frequency is a measurement of wavelength distance and vibration (paraphrased), this will have a very high-pitched sound, given what a short distance you have from string to string (think mandolin vs. standup bass), regardless of string tension. I'm not sure what would work on this...maybe mandolin strings actually. As far a staying in tune....it'll be a measure of the quality of your tuning pegs and how it's stringed. I'm very unfamiliar with the wrap-around style in that picture, but the important part is that the string <knot> doesn't slip. Ditto on what C Shaffer said regarding the species of wood/resonation. I don't think it'll factor much, given that it's a first project. If you really hone in your build style, then it might be time to experiment. Seems to be more of an echo effect, like a domed ceiling, and domes have some pretty wild acoustic properties. Anyone who's ever played the 'whisper game' in a big European cathedral will vouch for that. Because a lot of pull force is coming from both ends of the string, a thick wall is key here. I could see it pulling right through thin or weak stock. If you're unfamiliar with stringing a guitar, again, ask someone who plays. They'd be stoked to help I'm sure. To qualify this advice again, I've never built an instrument, just the electronics. Personally, I'd put a cigar box pickup in it and plug it into my VOX...turned up to 11, of course. And if you do decide to burn it , consider mailing it to me instead! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wouldwurker Posted September 19, 2014 Report Share Posted September 19, 2014 Ok, two more thoughts.... You may want tuning pegs that are meant to be/or easy to turn while playing to change tone. This is common in Oriental and Indian music Also, because its an Oriental instrument, to be plucked with fat American fingers...I'd also think about spacing between the strings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPCV_Woodworker Posted September 19, 2014 Report Share Posted September 19, 2014 There is a monastery in Sengal that makes Koras, their traditional models use the same kind of wrapping pegs. They might be able/willing to offer insight on how to set them up. I'm sure they have at least one anglophone on staff who could reply. http://www.abbaye-keur-moussa.org/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpt life Posted September 19, 2014 Report Share Posted September 19, 2014 Musical instruments are my life. Literally. It is amazing what trash you can make music with. That said, these are tone bowls for meditation. Think wind chimes. You are not really targeting a musical scale, but rather a pleasing sound. This is freeing. The worst that can happen is not that bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wouldwurker Posted September 19, 2014 Report Share Posted September 19, 2014 Agreed. Make yourself a gutbucket! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Tarbell Posted September 20, 2014 Report Share Posted September 20, 2014 They seem neat, though i'm rather shocked at the price. They go from $750 for the small 8" ones up to over $7000 for the larger ones. By viewing his indexing scheme for the bowls it appears he's crafted around 400 of them so far. Kudos to him for turning his hobby into something so profitable! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duckkisser Posted September 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 20, 2014 I wrote the guy and he has said he provides a temporary copy wright licenses for I think around 33 dollars plus 50 pictures and measurements for the stringing and the curving. Not a bad price and I think it's worth it. He kept going on about how I would need to take a 9 month aprentiship to learn to make one of these to a musical quality. I told him I don't want to master the skill just learn how it's done. I'd be just as happy twanging the strings then in making it sing. Then maybe use it in a future use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indy Cindy Posted September 20, 2014 Report Share Posted September 20, 2014 What does the temporary copyright get you, just making them for yourself? I agree, good deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdwerker Posted September 20, 2014 Report Share Posted September 20, 2014 Considering the amount of effort in the learning curve I think the pictures and measurements are well worth it. The licence makes some sense as well. He has invested a lot to get where he is. Would you want someone knocking off a product you had worked hard to develop? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhighlander Posted September 20, 2014 Report Share Posted September 20, 2014 Just to stir the waters a bit, I'll offer a different opinion. Just look at the pictures and reverse-engineer from that. You already know how to make bowls and hollow forms. You know about the properties of the material you use. You know the function of this instrument is nothing more than a finger-plucked door harp. I'm pretty sure he can't copyright that concept, only the specific design of his own work. You aren't selling them, anyway. The fact that he runs the strings through the 'sound hole' rather than across the hole doesn't sound like a patentable improvement. In fact, my limited understanding of acoustics would indicate that this design would have less amplification effect, as the reflected vibrations will be out of algnment with the originals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wouldwurker Posted September 20, 2014 Report Share Posted September 20, 2014 Isn't this an 500 year old instrument anyway? That said, of $33 saves you an hour of your time, it's worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duckkisser Posted September 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 20, 2014 What does the temporary copyright get you, just making them for yourself? I agree, good deal. I just can't sell, give, or let it leave my sight ever Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duckkisser Posted September 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 20, 2014 Considering the amount of effort in the learning curve I think the pictures and measurements are well worth it. The licence makes some sense as well. He has invested a lot to get where he is. Would you want someone knocking off a product you had worked hard to develop? I would feel honored if someone would take something I made and made there own hopefully bettering on what I did. That's why I'm a teacher and not a inventor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpt life Posted September 20, 2014 Report Share Posted September 20, 2014 Yes, yes, yes! It takes all types, but this is also who I am. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duckkisser Posted September 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 20, 2014 Just to stir the waters a bit, I'll offer a different opinion. Just look at the pictures and reverse-engineer from that. You already know how to make bowls and hollow forms. You know about the properties of the material you use. You know the function of this instrument is nothing more than a finger-plucked door harp. I'm pretty sure he can't copyright that concept, only the specific design of his own work. You aren't selling them, anyway. The fact that he runs the strings through the 'sound hole' rather than across the hole doesn't sound like a patentable improvement. In fact, my limited understanding of acoustics would indicate that this design would have less amplification effect, as the reflected vibrations will be out of algnment with the originals. Forgot all about door harps yep that's all it is just a different method of making them Anyone who is interested here they are http://www.larkinam.com/DoorHarps.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick A McQuay Posted September 20, 2014 Report Share Posted September 20, 2014 They are bowl lyres and he didn't invent them unless he's 1,000 years old and he isn't the only person currently making them. I wouldn't pay the license fee as it's worthless but the pictures and plans might be worth something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wouldwurker Posted September 20, 2014 Report Share Posted September 20, 2014 I'm pretty sure David Carradine has the copyright on these. He definitely played one in Kung Fu! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indy Cindy Posted September 20, 2014 Report Share Posted September 20, 2014 It may be a bowl lyre, but I googled it and none of the ancient ones I found look anything like his. It is possible to invent a better mousetrap, and to patent it or in his case copyright it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post duckkisser Posted September 21, 2014 Author Popular Post Report Share Posted September 21, 2014 https://musicofthebiblerevealed.wordpress.com/category/bowl-lyre/p The third picture from the bottom shows the inside of a bowl lyre. It's essentially just a bowl with a neck and strings. As for making a better mouse trap that is too be seen. There is a video at the top with the lyre playing and it sounds like it has more resonance. But eather way I can learn by trial and error or I can pay for the lesson and make one of his bowls. I'm paying for the knowledge not the right to make money off the bowl and if his lesson prevents me from wasting time and materials then I'll be happy. Like McQueen said I don't care about the license only the lesson. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick A McQuay Posted September 21, 2014 Report Share Posted September 21, 2014 My personal feelings about the originality or copyright aside, the guy makes a beautiful instrument and it would be fun to make one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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