Please Help A Newbie Build His Norm Abrams Inspired "Ultimate Router Table"

[wdwerker]

I have found that easier bit changes and fast easy accurate adjustments in height take the frustration out of setting up a cut. This becomes important when making matching cuts like cope and sticking for raised panel door construction.

[..Kev]

Steve is correct and that goes for any tool.  The easier it is to use, the more enjoyment you'll get out of it.  I used to hate routing tasks on my old table because I had to take the router out to change bits and crawl under it to make height adjustments.

[TheWoodShouter]

Hi guys!

I'm sorry I haven't had a chance to check in lately, but work and life has been crazy. I definitely want to thank everyone who stopped by and offered their advice. If I didn't reply to your specific comment, it doesn't mean I didn't appreciate it, I'm just running short on time right now. And, unfortunately, We have a wedding to go to this weekend, so I don't think I can get much real work done on this project, but I definitely want to start finalizing my plans and ordering any parts I might need.

So to that end, I need to settle on a thickness for my top. I too had been concerned about sag, but I also think with this project the cabinet top will add a lot of support. But to me thicker is better, so I'm back to at least the 2x 3/4" MDF, and may go with three layers as Dan S mentioned, laminated on both surfaces as others have suggested. This means the Kreg levelers are out, and I'm back to cutting a nice rabbet for the plate, and I need some advice of what screws to use as levelers. Dan S mentioned some standard brass hardware, could someone please elaborate on what I should use exactly? And if I need it, can some of you here help me with questions on routing the rabbet for the plate?

And last, I tank almost certainly I'm going to want a lift eventually, if not right away. I haven't had much of a chance to look them over, but right now I'd be leaning towards the Mast-R-Lift as it seems to accommodate a wide range of routers easily. Would this be a good lift to go with in my spot?

Thanks guys, I really appreciate the help!

-TWS

[Dan S]

Dan S mentioned some standard brass hardware, could someone please elaborate on what I should use exactly?

recess one of these into the top of the top, under each corner of the plate/lift, you can get them at your local hardware store.

http://www.theboltbin.com/index.php?id_product=29586&controller=product

Then take a bolt that's long enough to reach through the top and thread a nut and then a washer on it. Then thread it up from the bottom of the top through the threaded insert. The bolt will let you level the lift/plate, and the bolt and washer will let you lock it in place once you have it where you want it.

And if I need it, can some of you here help me with questions on routing the rabbet for the plate?

Hopefully these two posts can help, if not let me know.

http://www.dans-hobbies.com/2010/03/29/router-table-pt-11/

http://www.dans-hobbies.com/2010/04/03/router-table-pt-12/

[woodbutcher74]

 

You asked for a picture. I followed the plans to the letter. I used biscuits to joint the trim boards to the top. I don't know what everyone has against biscuits, I think they work great.

[mikem]

I am glad to see I am not the only one who put the power switch sideways!

 

[woodbutcher74]

I had it on the side like the plans called for and it was a pain. If something happened I wanted to be able to shut things down as easily as possible. It's kinda in the way when squeezing between my tablesaw and router table but I feel safer when running the router.

[TheWoodShouter]

recess one of these into the top of the top, under each corner of the plate/lift, you can get them at your local hardware store.

http://www.theboltbin.com/index.php?id_product=29586&controller=product

Then take a bolt that's long enough to reach through the top and thread a nut and then a washer on it. Then thread it up from the bottom of the top through the threaded insert. The bolt will let you level the lift/plate, and the bolt and washer will let you lock it in place once you have it where you want it.

Hopefully these two posts can help, if not let me know.

http://www.dans-hobbies.com/2010/03/29/router-table-pt-11/

http://www.dans-hobbies.com/2010/04/03/router-table-pt-12/

Thank you again for taking the time to answer my questions! I appreciate all the links and help very much, and your website is very well done and informative. Especially after seeing how you routed the recess for your lift on your table, I'm going to go that route myself. If I work carefully I think I can do it, the result looks very professional, and this way I can go with a thicker top and use standard bolts as levelers. As you suggested before, I'll go with three layers of 3/4" MDF with the Formica laminate on both the top and bottom side for stability. I'm going to omit the steel reinforcement bars, but honestly I thought that was a very novel idea you had. Again, I looked over MANY router table plans, and sag seemed to be an issue with many, so I had been thinking about using hardwood strips under the table top. But in this case I think that the cabinet itself adds quite a bit of support under the table top, so I am hoping I won't need addition support in the form of steel bars or hardwood strips. Hopefully between the extra thick top and the cabinet base I will have a very stable, flat table top, even supporting a large router and lift.

 

Thanks again, Dan S, I appreciate your time and help!

 

-TWS 

[TheWoodShouter]

To woodbutcher74 and MikeM, thanks very for sharing the pictures of your finished router table project; they look great, and I'd be thrilled to have either one in my shop. I too had some questions about the placement and mounting of the switch. I already ordered the MLCS 20 amp safety switch that works like a paddle, but I was disappointed with how the wires come out the bottom of the unit, which will require me to have relatively unsightly holes for the wires in my router table. I would much prefer the same switch with wires that came in/out of the back of the switch, allowing for what I think would be a much cleaner install of the switch on the table. I definitely don't want to lose too much sleep over this, but does anyone know a better switch I could try before I decide to go with the MLCS paddle switch?

 

And as far as switch placement, I would think this one is largely personal preference, but what do most prefer, the switch on the side or front of the cabinet? What's safer?

 

Thanks for the help guys!

 

-TWS

[TheWoodShouter]

I have found that easier bit changes and fast easy accurate adjustments in height take the frustration out of setting up a cut. This becomes important when making matching cuts like cope and sticking for raised panel door construction.

 

 

Steve is correct and that goes for any tool.  The easier it is to use, the more enjoyment you'll get out of it.  I used to hate routing tasks on my old table because I had to take the router out to change bits and crawl under it to make height adjustments.

I know, I know, everyone raves about having a lift. You guys are not even the only two to stress it in this post. I have a little "shop toy" money I can use, and I had been wanting and literally just about to order the Dewalt 735X planner package, but now I'm thinking maybe I would be better served by getting the lift now. My reasoning is that the local hardwood supplier I frequent is usually willing to joint and plane the small amounts of lumber I'm buying for not much more than a cup of coffee. However, if I went to the shop and asked them to make me raised panel cabinet doors and the like, then I'd be looking at somewhere around $50/hour for custom work. So in this case, I'm thinking maybe I'll get the router lift now and really have an excellent router station, and I'll just have to wait a little longer to get a planer and eventually a jointer of my own. Sound reasonable? Also, if I go with the thicker top, standard leveler screws, and a lift I can return the Kreg insert plate and levelers I bought, giving me about 80 bucks back towards the lift purchase.

 

So at this point I'm considering the Kreg lift because I like Kreg products, and they seem to get mostly great reviews. As another poster mentioned, their plate is the same as the Woodpecker's version, which also gets good reviews, and it's sold by the orange big box store for which I have a gift card I could use. And I prefer all things to be blue ;-) My one concern is it seems to be a little limited in the routers it can accommodate, being made almost specifically for the big Porter Cable. That's fine, but I don't have a PC router, and while I know that you can get additional plates, hardware, and gizmos to make the lift work with other routers, it kind of bugs me that these things seems to only work with certain routers. It must be the router that the lift maker considers the best on the market? I don't know, but from a beginner, no-nothing point of view, I'd think they would be more universal.

 

That said, I think the JessEm Mast-R-Lift II is really calling me for the reasons that it too gets mostly rave reviews, and it seems to accommodate a wide range of routers. I'm not sure I can swing the router lift and new 3hp router right now, but if/when I do get a 3 hp router it's likely to be the Milwaukee, not the PC, just because I like the Milwaukee 2.25 hp I have now. I believe this lift will work out-of-the-box with my current router, and just about any of the bigger routers I may get in the future. Would this JessEm mast-R-Lift II be a good purchase for me? And why does Incra also have a lift called the "Mast-R-Lift" are these companies one and the same?

 

Thanks for all the help guys! I have to run out of town for the rest of the weekend, but I hope to some supplies ordered and get this project started in the very near future.

 

-TheWoodShouter

[Eric.]

You're over-complicating things.  Just follow the golden rule...buy the biggest and best you can afford and don't look back.  Incra, JessEm, and Woodpeckers are top-notch equipment.  They're all very similar and it's tough to say if one is better than another.  You won't go wrong with any of them.  Kreg is a decent product but it's inferior to the other three.  Where Kreg shines is their pocket-hole and jig-building products.  I'm not crazy about their router table stuff.

[TheWoodShouter]

You're over-complicating things.  Just follow the golden rule...buy the biggest and best you can afford and don't look back.  Incra, Jess-em, and Woodpeckers are top-notch equipment.  They're all very similar and it's tough to say if one is better than another.  You won't go wrong with any of them.  Kreg is a decent product but it's inferior to the other three.  Where Kreg shines is their pocket-hole and jig-building products.  I'm not crazy about their router table stuff.

Would you suggest the JessEm Mast-R-Lift II? I think that's really the one I'm leaning towards as it seems to accommodate the most routers. 

 

Thanks for your input again!

 

-TWS

[Eric.]

I have the Incra version that's basically the same.  Yes, it's awesome.

[TheWoodShouter]

Are Incra and JessEm the same company?

 

-TWS

[STL Woodguy]

IIRC, the Incra version is contracted out to Jessem for their design with Incra making modifications like the magnetic insert plate. I actually don't have a router lift yet, but I've had the Incra version on my wishlist for some time. I'll get around to it...eventually.

[mikem]

Fyi, many of the router plate makers have adapted both the Woodpecker (PRL-V2) and Jessem (Mast-R-Lift II) which lets you get both the lift and the plate you want.  I went with the PRL-V2 with incra plate, and other than some shipping issues, the lift is great.

 

Woodshouter, actually the power  switch I have on my router table, the cables com out the bottom of the box as well.  I ended up putting a false front on the router table to hide the wires.

[TheWoodShouter]

OK, so I've spent a little time today in between lousy wedding music shopping router lifts on my phone. Am I correct that JessEm in fact makes the Mast-R-Lift II for Incra as well? And the reason I ask is I noticed that the Incra lift comes with their MagnaLOCK reducing ring system, which looks pretty cool. So if I went with the Incra lift, would I be getting all the benefits of the JessEm, but I'd also get the arguably "cooler" reducing ring system? And does anyone know if these rings are made of metal or plastic? Are there any other differences between the JessEm Mast-R-Lift II and the Incra version or any others that I should know about? And last, if I get one that's got a plate measuring 9-1/4" x 11-3/4" x 3/8" and for some reason in the future I want to buy a table, would this lift and plate work on some of the popular pre-made router tables/tops including those by Incra, JessEm and Kreg. Is that correct? I do think I want to try some incantation of the Mast-R-Lift II because it appeals to me that it can accommodate so many makes and models of routers, now I just want to make sure I get the best one for me.

 

I was initially excited when I noticed that they offer an MDF template to help router the table opening for the lift, but at about $25 + the shipping I started to think that's a little pricey for what it is. So I thought maybe I'd try to make my own template using the method that Dan S linked to in his post above. Is it wise to try this myself, or is this one of those things that I'll be much better off if I just cough up the $30+ on the pre-made template?

 

Thanks again for everyone's help!

 

-TWS

[STL Woodguy]

Someone needs to confirm but I was under the impression that the top of the ring insert part on Incra was aluminum. Would be safer in case the spinning bit accidentally contacted it somehow. At any rate, typically inserts require some sort of tool to remove them. Not sure if still up, but I'm pretty sure Marc did some sort of live segment on different router lift types if interested.

Off the top of my head, the one company to watch out for as far as odd router table / plate sizes is Rockler stuff.

[TheWoodShouter]

Someone needs to confirm but I was under the impression that the top of the ring insert part on Incra was aluminum. Would be safer in case the spinning bit accidentally contacted it somehow. At any rate, typically inserts require some sort of tool to remove them. Not sure if still up, but I'm pretty sure Marc did some sort of live segment on different router lift types if interested.

Off the top of my head, the one company to watch out for as far as odd router table / plate sizes is Rockler stuff.

OK, good to know about Rockler's stuff; thanks! From what I understand, the "cool" part about the MagnaLOCK insert rings is that they are held in place magnetically, and need no tool for removal. Sounded good to me, and was pretty much the only reason I'm considering the Incra instead of the JessEm. And if by Marc you mean The Wood Whisperer, then I will definitely check that out. I joined this forum in particular because I appreciate his videos, I think he does a great job explaining things.

 

Thanks again for your help!

 

-TWS

[TheWoodShouter]

Not sure if still up, but I'm pretty sure Marc did some sort of live segment on different router lift types if interested.

I'm sorry to say I've been looking, and I can't find it. If it's still available, could someone please post a link?

 

Thanks!

 

-TWS

[TheWoodShouter]

And, could someone help me get a handle on what router bits I'm going to need to build the top as I want to get them ordered too. I know I need a 1/4" round over, and a 45 degree chamfer bit. But, I'm not sure what bit is best used for trimming the Formica laminate material after it's glued. Also, I was hoping to be able to use a flush trim bit to trim the hardwood edging flush with the laminated MDF top, and could use a suggestion for this bit too. And finally, in his video Norm uses a router to cut slots for the T-bolts used to secure the fence, but he doesn't say what kind of bit that is. In fact, I think it's really two bits, one to cut a larger slot for the bolt head, and a second to cut a narrower slot for the bolt itself. Sorry for my ignorance here, but I'm a total newbie at routing. 

 

As always, I really appreciate all the help I'm getting with this project; thanks again to everyone for their input!

 

-TheWoodShouter

[STL Woodguy]

Actually sorry, I keep stuff downloaded over the years on my HTPC and it was a live WW guild session from November 2010, not sure if it's still accessible or not.

[TheWoodShouter]

I hope it's OK to post a link like this, and if not then I'll gladly remove it, but would this be a good set of bits for the flush trimming I'd like to do on this project? Plus, I know in the future I'd like to do some pattern routing of things like large wooden letters with my router table once it's complete. Does this seem like a good value?

 

http://www.amazon.com/MLCS-8810-Pattern-Router-5-Piece/dp/B000GG09RM/ref=sr_1_14?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1411871216&sr=1-14&keywords=flush+trim+router+bit

 

Thanks again!

 

-TWS

[STL Woodguy]

I'd say use a chamfer bit for the edges of the laminated top. Flush trim bit for flushing anything. Can't remember off the top of my head what Norm did on the fence, but if it's just T-track, securing t track isn't complicated, a single dado should suffice.

[TheWoodShouter]

Actually sorry, I keep stuff downloaded over the years on my HTPC and it was a live WW guild session from November 2010, not sure if it's still accessible or not.

Darn. Oh well, thanks for trying!

 

-TWS