CStanford Posted October 1, 2014 Report Share Posted October 1, 2014 Here's Brian Boggs showing how it's done: http://www.finewoodworking.com/item/114270/brian-boggs-demonstrates-freehand-blade-sharpening Requires membership -- sign up for the free trial. Don't think this does require membership. This video is worth your time. No B.S. no silly tricks, no fuss, no muss. Grind and then honing on the hollow using it as a jig. If you have any questions after watching this that you can't work out with a bit of shop time then consider another hobby. As sane and sensible a presentation as I've ever seen and all in less than five minutes. Use whatever media floats your boat. I believe Boggs uses diamond stones or paste on a steel lap. Waterstones and oilstones will be fine. Technique and simplicity same for all stones. Brian Boggs' website: http://brianboggschairs.com/# 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G S Haydon Posted October 3, 2014 Report Share Posted October 3, 2014 Planes & Chisels done in just over four mins https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1F5aSs2ureQ , a very natural motion on the stone, looks like he's been doing it for a long time. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CStanford Posted October 3, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 3, 2014 Even better Graham. And your video is wonderful as well. Please post a link again when you have a moment. Love the Record plane! Can't beat 'em! Scottish accent helps too. I need to do a video with my Southern drawl. I'm off to make pastitsio for dinner.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardA Posted October 4, 2014 Report Share Posted October 4, 2014 Both fellows use a method that most woodworkers would find to be uncertain. The reliance of a guide or a mechanical devise to assure a "perfect" edge is now considered the norm. Having followed Paul Sellers way of sharpening has served me over the years, as these two guys do almost exactly Paul's way. I've never seen or felt the need to exceed #320 grit to get an edge that will do what I need to get done. The whole trick [if you want to call it that] is to move your body and not your arms, once you establish the angle that is required.... Taking an edge to 8,000 or 12,000 grit is over kill IMO! And expensive! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhighlander Posted October 4, 2014 Report Share Posted October 4, 2014 I agree that high grit isn't needed to make a good working edge, but I find that a more polished edge lasts a lot longer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derekcohen Posted October 4, 2014 Report Share Posted October 4, 2014 The video by Brian Boggs, in the link from Charles, is a classic of form. I would like to say that I hope I get close to his technique because it is pure and correct. The second video (Barnet Construction), the link from Graham, is not so good, I'm afraid. There are errors of form that one must attempt to avoid. The two videos are, in fact, good together as they show the issues that may otherwise be missed. The notable features of the Boggs video are, firstly, (1) that he keeps his upper body rigid, and (2) he rocks back and forth with his hips. This ensures that the blade does not alter the angle at which it is held, and then the bevel angle is easier to maintain. The Barnet video does not do this. You can see that he is pushing with his shoulders. His upper body rocks back and forth while his hips remain relatively still. This is a recipe for rounding the bevel. I am also not enamoured with the speed at which he works - too fast. Watch Boggs, he is slow and deliberate, and less likely to overbalance. Boggs uses a semi- side-to-side movement (which I do as well). This is much more stable than the full front-to-back movement - where again there is more risk of rocking the blade. The grinding section is notable for the crowned wheel. This is a technique that Joel Moskowitz has written about. There is a video at FWW, but you do need to have a membership to view it or download the PDF: http://www.finewoodworking.com/how-to/article/grind-perfect-edges-without-burning.aspx#track=true&email=derekcohen%40iinet.net.au&member=true Lastly, it would have been more complete if either video had included some instruction on cambering the blade. The method I keep in mind is that of David Charlesworth, and the link I have is of Chris Schwarz. He is using a honing guide here, but the issues are the same: increasing the strokes at the sides compared with the centre (I also hone side-to-side and then lift the opposite side of the blade as I hone): http://www.popularwoodworking.com/woodworking-blogs/chris-schwarz-blog/camber-with-a-honing-guide Regards from Perth Derek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G S Haydon Posted October 4, 2014 Report Share Posted October 4, 2014 I fail to see what's wrong Derek . He works too fast most likely reprasentative of the fact the students need to put food on the table! I know you'll be aware of Richard Jones too, I think he outlines perfectly the practical approach. I can appreciate you percieve a correct way but the term correct here is way off. I'm fine with both methods shown but to say one is not correct is plain funny. Using the term error is has me truly laughing out loud . Error, really! I actually fail to see how the word correct and error apply here? Correct in my mind would mean quick, easy and fit for purpose. Error would mean blunt and unable to cut. Some degree of camber to the bevel is to be expected, I try to get as steady as possible but I don't sweat it. Brian does a top Job too and shows a great system, his results shown in his finish work speak for themselves. Adding a camber to the width of the edge, lightly press down on each side during the honing, stop when you have the desired ammount, it need not be more difficult than than that. Perhaps that's not correct though? Peace! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derekcohen Posted October 4, 2014 Report Share Posted October 4, 2014 Hi Graham My comments were with the beginner hand sharpener in mind. "Correct" was used in the same breath as "ideal". Can one hone a blade with shoulders rather than hips? Sure ... but someone starting out should know that the hips and locked arm method is important and to try and emulate this. Good habits from the start. The same with chamber - I mention that I just lift the side of the opposite edge of the blade and bear down on the edge I am honing. However, that is not a beginners trick. Someone starting out is advised to count strokes to ensure that they do enough - and not too little or too much - at the sides. Incidentally, the link to Richard Jones needs explanation. I've known and chatted on-and off forums with Richard for many years. He loves to make fun of those who make a big deal out of equipment for sharpening. The message he tries to convey is that sharpening is a basic skill, and is not woodworking, but the part that gets you woodworking. I agree. However it needs to be said that all skills are learned, and beginners need more explicit information what to do ... especially if they are not getting hands-on tutoring (as he had). In his blog post Richard actually provides no useful information for someone learning the skills. All he is saying is get on with it and now let's do some woodworking ... Regards from Perth Derek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CStanford Posted October 4, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 4, 2014 The video by Brian Boggs, in the link from Charles, is a classic of form. I would like to say that I hope I get close to his technique because it is pure and correct. The second video (Barnet Construction), the link from Graham, is not so good, I'm afraid. There are errors of form that one must attempt to avoid. The two videos are, in fact, good together as they show the issues that may otherwise be missed. The notable features of the Boggs video are, firstly, (1) that he keeps his upper body rigid, and (2) he rocks back and forth with his hips. This ensures that the blade does not alter the angle at which it is held, and then the bevel angle is easier to maintain. The Barnet video does not do this. You can see that he is pushing with his shoulders. His upper body rocks back and forth while his hips remain relatively still. This is a recipe for rounding the bevel. I am also not enamoured with the speed at which he works - too fast. Watch Boggs, he is slow and deliberate, and less likely to overbalance. Boggs uses a semi- side-to-side movement (which I do as well). This is much more stable than the full front-to-back movement - where again there is more risk of rocking the blade. The grinding section is notable for the crowned wheel. This is a technique that Joel Moskowitz has written about. There is a video at FWW, but you do need to have a membership to view it or download the PDF: http://www.finewoodworking.com/how-to/article/grind-perfect-edges-without-burning.aspx#track=true&email=derekcohen%40iinet.net.au&member=true Lastly, it would have been more complete if either video had included some instruction on cambering the blade. The method I keep in mind is that of David Charlesworth, and the link I have is of Chris Schwarz. He is using a honing guide here, but the issues are the same: increasing the strokes at the sides compared with the centre (I also hone side-to-side and then lift the opposite side of the blade as I hone): http://www.popularwoodworking.com/woodworking-blogs/chris-schwarz-blog/camber-with-a-honing-guide Regards from Perth Derek The reason the techniques are different is that Boggs is honing on the grinding bevel and the other fellow is not. Both are perfectly acceptable. Honing on the grinding bevel will always be a little slower because of the way the cutter has to be registered on the stone. I think Richard Jones' article should be required reading for a beginner before they ever even attempt to hone for it sets the right tone. It's too easy to get lost in all of the sharpening hoo-hah that's about, especially all the David Charlesworth three bevels on the front and one on the back "stuff" (I'll be nice and put in mildly). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derekcohen Posted October 4, 2014 Report Share Posted October 4, 2014 The reason the techniques are different is that Boggs is honing on the grinding bevel and the other fellow is not. Both are perfectly acceptable. Honing on the grinding bevel will always be a little slower because of the way the cutter has to be registered on the stone Charles, Barnet says in his video "Move the body not the chisel", and he is trying to do so. What I pointed out was that the method that Boggs uses makes this more likely by maintaining a ridged upper body. At the 1:45 minute mark on the Barnet video he is moving his upper body a great deal. We know that Boggs has hollow ground the blade and is working on the bevel, and it does seem that Barnet has simply lifted the bevel to 30 degrees. However that should make no difference. If anything, he does not have the extra stability that the hollow affords. Regards from Perth Derek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G S Haydon Posted October 4, 2014 Report Share Posted October 4, 2014 Thanks for the response Derek, I guess it's good to have an option. Some folks feel right at home with counting strokes and breaking the whole thing down into it's various parts. I would disagree that all beginners would prefer that. Some would equally draw a great deal from the narrative Richard provides then do what the chap in my link does. I think it fair that no method should be described as wrong in any way I can't speak for Richard but his hands seem to be moving fast and his results are spectacular. Some of course find your methods just as good. It can't even be used in terms of "ideal" simply what get's the user there the fastest. Perhaps we have too many options! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G S Haydon Posted October 4, 2014 Report Share Posted October 4, 2014 Derek! You don't have to hollow grind for best results. It's a good method but it's not the king of methods, nor is any other. And to be quite honest you don't have to be locked in postion if you don't want, up and down a few times nice and steady is good enough . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derekcohen Posted October 4, 2014 Report Share Posted October 4, 2014 OK Graham Regards from Perth Derek 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CStanford Posted October 4, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 4, 2014 I fail to see what's wrong Derek . He works too fast most likely reprasentative of the fact the students need to put food on the table! I know you'll be aware of Richard Jones too, I think he outlines perfectly the practical approach. I can appreciate you percieve a correct way but the term correct here is way off. I'm fine with both methods shown but to say one is not correct is plain funny. Using the term error is has me truly laughing out loud . Error, really! I actually fail to see how the word correct and error apply here? Correct in my mind would mean quick, easy and fit for purpose. Error would mean blunt and unable to cut. Some degree of camber to the bevel is to be expected, I try to get as steady as possible but I don't sweat it. Brian does a top Job too and shows a great system, his results shown in his finish work speak for themselves. Adding a camber to the width of the edge, lightly press down on each side during the honing, stop when you have the desired ammount, it need not be more difficult than than that. Perhaps that's not correct though? Peace! I'm envious of the fellow in your video, not afraid to admit it, and not afraid to acknowledge the obvious skill on display by a professional craftsman. Some people just can't stand it. Nothing not to love about that approach - three things on the bench, a Record plane (!!), one fine India oilstone in a workmanlike tray, and a bottle of 3-in-1. Frou-frou free zone comes to mind. Thanks again for the video. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G S Haydon Posted October 4, 2014 Report Share Posted October 4, 2014 Cheers Derek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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