Tpt life Posted October 26, 2014 Report Share Posted October 26, 2014 $1.47 million awarded in the 2x4 debacle. Are we going to see an industry wide shift in labeling? Goodbye quarter system? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted October 26, 2014 Report Share Posted October 26, 2014 I'm unfamiliar with the 2x4 debacle. But I'd be willing to bet that the 1.47 mil they lost pales in comparison to the 1.47 gazillion they made cutting corners and selling garbage...if that's the debacle...which I'm unfamiliar with. Just ignore me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpt life Posted October 26, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 26, 2014 Someone sued because advertised 2x4 actually measure 1.5x3.5. Looks like the judge mandated that actual dimensions follow nominal. Also mandated was the allowable abbreviations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted October 26, 2014 Report Share Posted October 26, 2014 Someone sued because advertised 2x4 actually measure 1.5x3.5 Oh my god. That's even more ridiculous than the McDonald's coffee. They should sell that guy sopping wet 2x4s of the exact dimension and see how he likes it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodbutcher74 Posted October 26, 2014 Report Share Posted October 26, 2014 OMG, I bought a 1x6 that only measured 3/4 x 51/2. Where's my lawyer. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewoodwhisperer Posted October 26, 2014 Report Share Posted October 26, 2014 This blew up on my Facebook page a while back and lots of folks came in to clarify the issue. They weren't being sued because 2x4's aren't 2x4. They were sued because they weren't even meeting the requirements for typical actual sizes for lumber. In other words, the 2x4s were LESS than 3 1/2" x 1 1/2". I kind of got sick of reading into the story and lost interest so I'm relying on the information of others for this. But when viewed from that lens, the whole things makes much more sense and this isn't just senseless litigation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhighlander Posted October 26, 2014 Report Share Posted October 26, 2014 I was just at my local Lowe's on Fiday, and noticed what looked like a stack of standard 2x4 studs that were labeled 1 something x 3 something. May as well just go metric.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted October 26, 2014 Report Share Posted October 26, 2014 Or just stick with relative dimensioning. I mean who measures anything but length when they build a stud wall? As long as the studs are flush with the plates and all the crowns are out, who cares? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted October 26, 2014 Report Share Posted October 26, 2014 True. But still. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rapid Roger Posted October 26, 2014 Report Share Posted October 26, 2014 I don't understand why Lowe's should be fined 1.4 M, they don't mill the lumber! Is the size of a 2 x 4 from Lowe's that much different than a 2 x 4 from any other suppler? The fault lies with the lumber mills in their measuring. They may get four or five more "2 x 4,s" out of a log by cutting the lumber so that after drying and finishing they end up with 1-1/2" x 3-1/2" to make more money out of each log. So as in everything else...LOOK FOR THE ALMIGHTY DOLLAR and where it ends up. Lawyers rule the world! And if you don't believe me, just ask them. As said before "McDonald's TOO hot coffee" comes to mind. Rant over. Rog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted October 26, 2014 Report Share Posted October 26, 2014 No denying I'd rather have the full 3.5 in my house. And I'm certainly not on the side of the mills and big boxes cutting corners to bolster profits. So you win this one. And now I'm bored with the 2x4 conversation. Carry on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryMcK Posted October 26, 2014 Report Share Posted October 26, 2014 Metric?? No different guys - you still dont get what is advertised. 50 x 100 mm the equiv of 2 x 4" actually measures 44 x 95 mm The difference is the first figures are quoted as "nominal" the second set "finished" Thats regardless if you want planed or rough sawn. Very irritating for the buyer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpt life Posted October 26, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 26, 2014 Maybe a mistake for me to reference McD if you don't know the back story. The suit was brought by employees and not by the woman scalded because of reporting that had followed a prior study. There is much "more to the story." I hope Marc is right and thank you Marc for adding that. The only response I have for this is that as a framer, I always verified off of the pallet. Different mills and usage do lead to different actual that "average" 1.5 x 3.5 Treated typically runs over, SYP even, Spruce even, and Fir under. Fir studding on a treated plate requires planning. The ruling from the judge makes sense except for the damages to me unless there was planned fraud. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llama Posted October 26, 2014 Report Share Posted October 26, 2014 I don't understand why Lowe's should be fined 1.4 M, they don't mill the lumber! Is the size of a 2 x 4 from Lowe's that much different than a 2 x 4 from any other suppler? The fault lies with the lumber mills in their measuring. They may get four or five more "2 x 4,s" out of a log by cutting the lumber so that after drying and finishing they end up with 1-1/2" x 3-1/2" to make more money out of each log. So as in everything else...LOOK FOR THE ALMIGHTY DOLLAR and where it ends up. Lawyers rule the world! And if you don't believe me, just ask them. As said before "McDonald's TOO hot coffee" comes to mind. Rant over. Rog Sorry, but this isn't true. The company selling the goods is wholly responsible for ensuring the product meets specifications. Don't believe me? When's the last time you say a KB toys? They went bankrupt fighting lead paint issue on Thomas the train toys made in China. Not their product, they simply sold the item. Same for Dell computers. They got the snot sued out of them because their computer mouses contained materials known to cause cancer in California. The list goes on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Eric. Posted October 26, 2014 Popular Post Report Share Posted October 26, 2014 mouses 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llama Posted October 26, 2014 Report Share Posted October 26, 2014 Wasn't sure if mice were/was applicable 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted October 26, 2014 Report Share Posted October 26, 2014 ==>That's even more ridiculous than the McDonald's coffee. ==>The suit was brought by employees and not by the woman scalded Kiki is refering to Liebeck v. McDonald's Restaurants. While seeimingly funny at the time, what wasn't made clear was that Ms. Liebeck received 3rd degree burns over much of her pelvic region and required a total of eight (I think) skin graft procedures plus about a month of hospitalization. If you've never seen burn patients presenting, her intake photos would be quite disturbing... She only saught reimbursement of her medical costs (around $20K?), McDs offered $800. The court-appointed mediator recomended around $250K, McD refused all negociations. Jury awarded $2.8M, was ultimatly setteled for about $300K... The rest, shall we say, is history... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjeff70 Posted October 26, 2014 Report Share Posted October 26, 2014 It also matters when you're building on both sides of the wall you're building....closets, showers, etc. A few years ago I started buying framing material from them because their stock is usually dryer than HD. Then I noticed the discrepancy when it came time to close in my shower and closet. It's fun shimming entire walls. Lowe's should have made sure their product made specs. I'd like to get some of that money for time I spent making my walls right. Of course I should have known and checked them before using them. You gotta check 2X4s for framing too!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted October 26, 2014 Report Share Posted October 26, 2014 I saw the documentary on the McDonalds suit and I know the story. But still, she did spill it on herself, and coffee IS supposed to be hot. I mean really... But I won't say any more as this thing can almost be twisted into politics through the back door. I guess I'll defer to Kramer and Jackie Chiles on this one... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llama Posted October 27, 2014 Report Share Posted October 27, 2014 A little known fact is they tried suing the car manufacturer for not having cup holders. Side note, when is the last time you saw a new car without cup holders? Food for thought... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jfitz Posted October 27, 2014 Report Share Posted October 27, 2014 So are they called 4x2's below the equator? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jfitz Posted October 28, 2014 Report Share Posted October 28, 2014 The lawsuit was brought by prosecutors from several counties.....meaning no consumer will see a dime of it. I looked up some articles and they indicate lowes was cooperative. Interestingly....I wonder what the impact would be on construction inspections for the fact that walls would be, technically, out of code.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Posted October 28, 2014 Report Share Posted October 28, 2014 I saw the documentary on the McDonalds suit and I know the story. But still, she did spill it on herself, and coffee IS supposed to be hot. I mean really... But I won't say any more as this thing can almost be twisted into politics through the back door. I guess I'll defer to Kramer and Jackie Chiles on this one... In my opinion, the biggest crime is that coffee tastes like burned donkey when you get it volcano hot like McDonald's used to. Make that, burned dookey... But donkey is pretty funny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted October 28, 2014 Report Share Posted October 28, 2014 I know I said I'd bow out of this one, but I thought of a perfect analogy and I have to present it... What if you accidentally sprayed a can of Raid in your eyeballs? Bet that's gonna burn. Do you sue Raid? Why not? They burned your eyeballs! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryMcK Posted October 28, 2014 Report Share Posted October 28, 2014 Wasn't sure if mice were/was applicable Isn't it meeces? Meeces to pieces 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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