Seeking opinions

[snider.mark@gmail.co]

I finally made it out to a LN Hand Tool event; it was amazing! I've been toying with the idea of getting into woodworking for several years and always gravitate toward the idea of predominantly using hand tools. Having now actually used many of the tools at the event, I am convinced it is very possible.

I left with a No. 5 1/2 Jack Plane and a 16 Tapered Tenon Saw. I plan to be a versatile woodworker from knickknacks to large furniture. The following list is my shopping plan over the course of the next year (in approximate order) and I am looking for opinions & comments:

LV PM-V11 7-piece chisel set

LN No. 8 Jointer

LV Jointer Fence (read it works on any plane)

LN Panel Saw (Rip)

LN Tapered Crosscut Saw

LN Tapered Dovetail Saw

LN Large & Small Router Planes

LV DX60 Block Plane

LN Large Shoulder Plane

LN No. 4 1/2 Smoother

LN No. 51 Shoot Board Plane (ouch)

Benchcrafted Split Roubo Kit

There are various other items but this represents the bulk of my aggressive list. Curious if there are any glaring redundancies or deficiencies an experienced eye might notice. Thanks in advance...

Regards,

Mark

[Jfitz]

I'm not an exclusively hand tool user, nor did I stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night. But a few thoughts -

You say "predominately hand tools". Do you plan on any power tools, such as jointer or planer? A table saw?

Shoulder planes are nice but a rabbeting block plane might be a better choice (or a good addition)

No 8 is a lot of plane. Why not "just" a No 7?

The No 62 is a versatile plane. You could probably use it for multiple purposes, including on a shooting board.

Hand cut mortises - mortifying chisels?

Of course if budget is no issue, then fill 'er up. 2 of everything please.

[G S Haydon]

Nothing wrong with that list at all but as an option you could start with less stuff.

 

LV PM-V11 3/4" & 1/2"
LN No. 5 /12
LN Tapered Crosscut Saw
LN Tapered Dovetail Saw
LN Large Router Plane
LV DX60 Block Plane
LN No. 4 1/2 Smoother
Benchcrafted Split Roubo Kit

 

Perhaps even some reading might help http://www.amazon.co.uk/Woodwork-Woodworker-Handbooks-Charles-Hayward/dp/0237445441 and the more recent http://lostartpress.com/collections/books/products/the-anarchists-tool-chest 

[TerryMcK]

Looks good to me if money is no object Mark  . I agree with Graham starting off with a minimal set and only buy the next tool when you absolutely need it otherwise you will end up with expensive boat anchors. In my case (and probably like most people on the forum) that will be tomorrow! My shop can sink the Titanic,

 

Also like John I can't see the value of a #8. It is very heavy and only does the same as a #7. Pushing a #7 around for hours is tiring enough.

The jointer fence is like training wheels - it will work on some planes made by Lee Valley (won't work on Lie Nielsen). If you buy a LN bronze plane for instance then it won't work - apart from the plane being a different shape than LN planes - the fence is magnetic! I think you will end up leaving it in a drawer. Learn how to plane square from the outset would be my advice.

You haven't included a #4 smoother. The #4.1/2 is great but slightly bigger - extra weight extra heft but tiresome over long periods especially the bronze version.

 

The 51 shooting plane is nice but very expensive. You can do the same with a bench plane (maybe with a detachable hot dog handle) or as John says a block plane.

If you are doing many tenons a rabbetting block plane is useful and multipurpose - then you could have a low angle block plane as well as a regular angle rabbetting block plane. You can get away with a shoulder plane to tune tenon faces (as well as shoulders). But why just the large one? A small to medium one probably will get more use.

 

On bench chisels go 1/4" 1/2" 3/4" and 1" in whatever grade steel you want (I personally like O1 for paring and A2 for chopping). There are many other sizes but initially those 4 are a good set. As you have mentioned the dovetail saw then the addition of a fish tail chisel or two helps clean up the inside corners of pins. You could also clean those with a pair of skew chisels.

 

If you do go the LN line for the majority of planes then the screwdrivers (an oft overlooked and underestimated tool) they make for the planes are very useful and stop you burring the screws. For instance when tightening the cap iron on the plane iron then the regular flat blade screwdriver that (almost but not quite) fits is about 18" long! The stubby screwdriver that LN sell is about 4" long. If there is one screwdriver to buy it is that one - it really is brilliant! There are others for adjusting the frog etc and if you have spent a bank load of cash buying the LN gear then those screwdrivers help maintain their respective condition.

 

A rip saw is useful too if you want to convert your own stock - unless you have a table saw of course. A set of cheap card scrapers and a burnisher is good to have.

 

Let us know how you get on as we are very passionate (as you see) about tools  .

[G S Haydon]

As Terry said most of us have a few things we don't "need" but we like to have for whatever reason. I know I have enjoyed finding out what I like best.

[Tom King]

I wonder how many people buy all those tools, build a bench, and then never make anything else.  I owned a small sailboat and sailboard shop back in the '80s.  Most of the windsurfing stuff was sold to people who were really into having the equipment, but never really learned how to sail to amount to anything.

[snider.mark@gmail.co]

Thanks for all the replies. I agree with the advice about the #8 and have ordered the #7. I was still excited from using the #8 at the event.

My real confusion is about the block plane, shoulder plane comments. I originally wanted the medium shoulder plane, and an adjustable mouth block. I don't know how getting the rabbet block plane is going to help.

Regards,

Mark

[Tpt life]

Tenon cheeks. One good place for a rabbet wider than a shoulder plane. Just a thought.

[popper]

I am relatively new to hand tools so with that said here is what I found so far. I bought the low angle jack plane by LN. I got the 3 blade set and love it. I am able to mill boards with it just by switching blades. But what I realized is that the biggest investment I need to make into hand tool is a really beefy workbench. I have a quick $200 made workbench and the stress of hand tool is going to snap it. soon.

[ChetlovesMer]

When I started buying hand tools I bought mostly "as needed", but I also kept my eyes open for deals.

 

Let me make a couple of comments you can take from them what you will:

 

1 - I agree with the No 7 over the No 8. - I used to own an 8 now I have a BU 7.

2 - I used to buy all LN tools, but over the years I've found that 9 times out of 10 I prefer LV. Two areas I've found that to be especially true.

            First, I believe the LV medium shoulder plane is much better than the LN, fits the hand so much better in my opinion its glaringly better.

            Second, I believe the LV block planes to be far more comfortable to use than the LN.

            I mention this not because I want the hate mail which I'm sure will come. But because I'm going to suggest you try some other brands just see what else is out there.

3 - The good thing about buying quality hand tools is that IF you end up not likely them (as in my case I found I prefer LV to LN) you can sell them for nearly the price you pay for them. If you buy cheaper hand tools a lot of times there's no resale value and you're just kind of stuck with them.

 

[TerryMcK]

Thanks for all the replies. I agree with the advice about the #8 and have ordered the #7. I was still excited from using the #8 at the event.

My real confusion is about the block plane, shoulder plane comments. I originally wanted the medium shoulder plane, and an adjustable mouth block. I don't know how getting the rabbet block plane is going to help.

Regards,

Mark

Sorry Mark I may need to explain a bit more. It's just the rabbetting block plane can work right into the corners of a tenon cheek. It can also work as a regular block plane hence me calling it mutilipurpose. The shoulder plane is designed to be used on the end grain of a tenon shoulder to fine tune it. However is can be used cross grain on a tenon cheek too - it's just that you may have to do it in multiple passes by moving its position longitudinally. A rabbetting block plane will most likely do it in one pass.

[Chuck Melton]

As someone who definitely bought some unnecessary tools while getting into woodworking, take the one tool at a time approach.

 

If you want to buy some PMV-11 stuff, maybe start off with an LV block plane with the PMV-11 iron. Pay attention to how much longer it takes to sharpen. While it holds an edge wonderfully, I don't know that I'd want PMV-11 chisels. I like to touch up my chisels pretty frequently, so that might be a personal thing.

 

Also, until you really learn to sharpen, a set of Narex bench chisels are more than adequate.

[snider.mark@gmail.co]

Hey Chuck, wouldn't the PM-V11 chisel reduce the need to "touch up" as often?

[Chuck Melton]

I have three PMV-11 plane blades and they definitely stay sharper far longer, but I feel like there is a difference between "I just sharpened it, wow this is sharp" and "This is still serviceably sharp". 

 

Again, this is my fairly novice experience speaking. I'd wait for Derek Cohen or someone who is more familiar with all of the offered tool steel grades to weigh in.

[snider.mark@gmail.co]

So after careful consideration, I've ordered the Stanley 16-401 Bailey Chisel Set. I've watched the video of Paul Sellers sharpening some cheap chisels several times and figure I can make due with these for quite a while.

I am also curious about using a bit brace; specifically, boring the many holes for knock-down bolts, countersunk hardware, etc. I plan to practice before hand but am curious how difficult a task this is going to be.

Regards,

Mark

[h3nry]

I am also curious about using a bit brace; specifically, boring the many holes for knock-down bolts, countersunk hardware, etc. I plan to practice before hand but am curious how difficult a task this is going to be.

 

Not much to say about using a brace - it works just like any other hand-held drill, but with low speed and high torque. Auger bits are the most common bits (usually from 1/4" to 1" size), as for how hard it is ... how straight can you hold a drill? how straight do you need your hole? Keep the bits sharp and you won't get much of a workout.

 

If you're planning on being totally unplugged you'll probably also want an egg-beater drill for bits smaller than 1/4".

[Rick A McQuay]

I am also curious about using a bit brace; specifically, boring the many holes for knock-down bolts, countersunk hardware, etc. I plan to practice before hand but am curious how difficult a task this is going to be.

Regards,

Mark

 

I find that boring straight is much easier than drilling straight, for whatever reason. And if your bits are sharp, it's not bad unless you get into some gnarly tough wood. 

[nod]

If you grabbed one of their catalogs, I believe they have what they refer to as an 'Core Tools' list. I'm sure it's a different list than some would put together, but seemed like a decent start to cover most bases.