chefmagnus@grics.net Posted October 28, 2014 Report Share Posted October 28, 2014 How would you calculate the bf of what is up there? I have a 38'x32' garage/shop. And the piles are about 6' high and the long boards are 8-10'. We alternated from side to side too. So if you wanted to you could put a long board down the gap behind you. I have never tried to turn a 8-10' board around in amongst rafter. Most of it is stickered with 1x2x16" sticks. I made a sketchup so you could visualize it. So are you ready for the math test? Give me a guessimate of how many bf I have stored in my rafters? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChetlovesMer Posted October 28, 2014 Report Share Posted October 28, 2014 Hey Chef, Can you dimension that drawing to make it easier on us? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdwerker Posted October 28, 2014 Report Share Posted October 28, 2014 Average the lengths by adding the shortest to longest and divide. Average the width. Count the planks per stack. Multiply x number of stacks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted October 28, 2014 Report Share Posted October 28, 2014 Don’t want to be the safety police, but I’ve seen several recent posts about lumber storage and want to remind folks that wood is heavy… Yea, no sh*t Sherlock, that’s obvious… But what’s not so obvious is that lots of hardwood is very heavy… I just went through this exercise with my woodshed rebuild following Hurricane Sandy – there’s a thread on it somewhere… The structure is 16x32x12 with standard residential stick framing… The original plan called for one long wall with high-density storage (non-figured stock, secondary wood, etc) for about 5,000bf and the adjacent end-wall for about 2,000bf vertical storage for figured stock. The opposing long wall would sport a band saw and cross-cut saw… As we loaded stock, I suddenly realized we had a dead-weight loading issue. A quick Google on residential loading standards revealed that the load needed to be distributed, the racking redesigned, etc… For the species that I regularly use (Sugar/Black Maple, Black Cherry, QSWO and True Mahogany), the dead weight is between 2.8lb and 5.0lb per bf. Now, this doesn’t sound like a lot until you multiply it by a couple thousand. Furthermore, this is dry stock -- the weight almost doubles for green stock. Also, it might not seem like a big difference between 2.8 and 5.0, but for racking several thousand bf, it makes a huge deference. A thousand bf of True Mahogany or Black Cherry is around 3000lbs. A thousand bf of QSWO and Sugar Maple is around 5000bf… I had originally intended to rack by the amount of bf on hand and frequency of use, but this placed QSWO and Sugar Maple in the same rack and loading between 12K and 14K lbs on a very small footprint… So species and MC need to be considered… So again, don’t want to be the safety police… But if you’re loading an attic space with hardwood in a part of the world that gets lots of snowfall… Again, not so obvious 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chefmagnus@grics.net Posted October 28, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2014 I have a house built before dimensionally lumber. My rafters are made up of oak and white ash that are 2"x12", 2"x10", 2'x6" and the beam that they sit on is 8"x12" of oak. that is supported by concrete block walls. The walls are studded with 2"x6" lumber and I mean 2 inches thick by 6 inches wide. If you think that I need to move some of this wood. I will have helpers again this weekend. We can put it in the shipping container that I was given to store the thicker stock instead of on my trailer in my great aunt carport. I am going to park it next to my shed. I did not see any bowing or hear any cracking or creeking when I was in the attic. I have noticed that the shed is sitting 1-3" lower. The door now makes contact with the yard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted October 28, 2014 Report Share Posted October 28, 2014 ==>I have a house built before dimensionally lumber Just keep in mind, they also used to frame 24" c/c.... Bigger sticks, just less of them... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted October 28, 2014 Report Share Posted October 28, 2014 Don’t want to be the safety police, but I’ve seen several recent posts about lumber storage and want to remind folks that wood is heavy… Yea, no sh*t Sherlock, that’s obvious… But what’s not so obvious is that lots of hardwood is very heavy… I have to agree. That space and its framing is there to hold the roof up. In a open bay shop there are no load bearing walls like there are in a house. There is nothing wrong with putting some junk in the space but filling it with lumber is not good idea. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tcarswell Posted October 28, 2014 Report Share Posted October 28, 2014 I'm going to have to get an engineer out to be honest I hadn't thought it through that much. Thanks so much guys for your input safety first ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chefmagnus@grics.net Posted October 28, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2014 How much should I have them take out and from where? My rafters and studs are on 16" centers. I know about aerospace engineering not construction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chefmagnus@grics.net Posted October 28, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2014 I called my neighbor the retired insurance guy and he said to call the state code engineer. I did and he gave me a formula that he walked me through. Which I will do here. ((thickness of rafter struts=2" x height of rafter struts=10" / (length of rafters=38') / (number of center vectical rafter studs = 2) squared) x (16" / distance between rafters=16") x 50 lb/ft2)/(cosin of roof angle = 46.6º) ((2 x 10 /((38/22))/(16/16) * 50)/(cos(46.6º)) = 153.20 lbs/ft2 This is the maximum load per ft2 that I should put onto my attic. The attic over my garage is 38' x 32' x 153.20~lbs/ft2= 186291.2 lbs or 93.15 tons. This is maximum load. He said that we sometimes get up to 24" of snow in our winters. The area of my roof is 2 x (sqrt ((19')2 + (18')2) x 32') =1370 ft2 24" of snow = 2' x 1370 ft2 x 59.9 lbs/ft3 water= 164126 lbs or 82.06 tons of snow weight So if we subtract the snow weight from the maximum load then multiply by 3/4 we get recommended maximum storage= 93.15 - 82.06 = 11.09 tons or 22180 lbs. Then to find the max storage amount per ft2 122180 lbs / (32' x 38') = 18.24 lbs/ft2 So I have a number for the lbs/ft2 how do I figure out if I have too much wood over my garage? PS I was wrong earlier, the beam for the garage is a steel 12" I beam like the one for the basement. The beam for the second floor of the house is a 8"x12" oak beam. He also put a steel beam over the front wall where the large garage doors are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhighlander Posted October 29, 2014 Report Share Posted October 29, 2014 My official estimate is that you have 1.65 "boatloads" of wood. Very likely enough to put quite a strain on the building structure. Hope that attic isn't directly over the bedrooms. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chefmagnus@grics.net Posted October 29, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2014 No it is over my shop and the back porch where the wet wood is stacked to air dry. I have stickered everything except for the exotic lumber that I stood on end like I found it. Is this the correct thing to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Gary Posted October 29, 2014 Popular Post Report Share Posted October 29, 2014 I have to agree. That space and its framing is there to hold the roof up. In a open bay shop there are no load bearing walls like there are in a house. There is nothing wrong with putting some junk in the space but filling it with lumber is not good idea. I'm going to have to get an engineer out to be honest I hadn't thought it through that much. Thanks so much guys for your input safety first ! But wait... shouldn't this be a reply by Chef? How much should I have them take out and from where? My rafters and studs are on 16" centers. I know about aerospace engineering not construction. Oh, there he is. For a minute there I was very confused. I guess I made a mistake. Golly, sometimes these darned conversations are so hard to follow! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdwerker Posted October 29, 2014 Report Share Posted October 29, 2014 "I have stickered everything except for the exotic lumber that I stood on end like I found it. Is this the correct thing to do. " I would store the exotics flat if possible, stickering a plus but not always nessacary. On end isn't horrible but flat and supported is safer in the long run. With as much wood as you have now a moisture meter will be a great thing to have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted October 29, 2014 Report Share Posted October 29, 2014 ==>I would store the exotics flat if possible, stickering a plus but not always nessacary +1. I do store some figured stock vertically so I can see the figure without diving-into-the-stacks -- but only sticks well dried and stable. I also agree w/ Steve, once you start getting a sizable inventory on stock, a moisture meter is a good investment. There are a lot of opinions out there on features/brand/etc -- I've got mine, but will keep them to myself... My only advice is avoid the $39.95 specials... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted October 29, 2014 Report Share Posted October 29, 2014 I used to go through extremes with stickering and standing up regiments but since the kid started buying full units and just setting on pallets I kind of wonder if it was all really necessary. I think a lot may just depend on how stable temps are in your storage area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted October 29, 2014 Report Share Posted October 29, 2014 ==>depend on how stable temps are in your storage area +1 add to that %RH swings... For those of us on the East Coast, last year -vs- this year's avg temp & %RH is almost night and day. This year has been mild with little %RH swing and my stacks have been stable and stock required little aclimitazition prior to rough milling... However, last year we had wild swings in temp and probably the all-time-high avg %RH (I think it averaged 85% from July-Sept --- this is unheard of for NJ). I had serious wood movement in my stacks and my scrap rate was higher. I also had compressor problems (%RH), finishing problems (%RH), etc... I spent some time in Atlanta many moons ago, and 2013 reminded me of those days... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chefmagnus@grics.net Posted October 30, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 I found a moister meter in Paul's shop. I don't know much about using it except his note on the back of under 15% dry and over 15% is wet. It has four pins that I push into the wood until I get a reading. I checked as we loaded things. Wet wood went on the back porch, dry wood went into the attic, shed, and now into the shipping container. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdwerker Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 Look the instructions PDF up online for your meter . Mine has a chart you use to apply corrections to the readout. Different species of wood might read 7% and correct to 10%. Temperature also has an effect on the results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chefmagnus@grics.net Posted October 30, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 Thanks Steve. I got the manual and found out it has species correction and temp correction built into it. I had just been using the general quick setting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tcarswell Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 But wait... shouldn't this be a reply by Chef? Oh, there he is. For a minute there I was very confused. I guess I made a mistake. Golly, sometimes these darned conversations are so hard to follow! That was my fault I have a similar thread up for a similar issue of sstorage.the same gentlemen had given me input. Sorry for the confusion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chefmagnus@grics.net Posted October 31, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 That was my fault I have a similar thread up for a similar issue of sstorage.the same gentlemen had given me input. Sorry for the confusio I found the equation by the state engineer very enlightening. I had not considered the weigh of snow. Also I had a gentleman from the local shop out to look at buying the shaper. I asked his about the situation. He took some measurements and did some math on his phone. He said that I was fine only because my rafters are thicker, steel center beam, and oak. He said that bottom of the steel beam is only sagging 9/32" in the center over the 32' span. He warned me that he would not store that much wood with modern day construction. He also said that I need to try to keep the piles even. And I could always add some supports under the steel beam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 It now qualifies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chefmagnus@grics.net Posted October 31, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 I know The Who but don't get the reference... It now qualifies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tcarswell Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 Why the who picture? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.