bushwacked Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 Well I figured I would poll the audience again for your knowledge. My brother in law gave me his approved supplier list of makers he would buy from. He's a pro and does amazing work on multi million dollar homes. Just a background on him so no he's not a keyboard warrior and he know his stuff Laguna tools was not on his list he supported me buying. I found a Laguna bandsaw 18 on sale for $1k OBO on Craigslist. I figured they go for $2k ish and if I could talk him down more it could be an awesome deal. What is the overall thought on the company as a whole? Is it a good one? Would this bandsaw be worth it if I could get it under $1k? I need a good bandsaw and I know there are plenty that could had for cheaper on Craigslist but just curious if this is a great deal and would be bad to pass up if the company is a Powermatic level company Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwacked Posted October 31, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 What brands were on his approved list? It really depends on the tool. He has all different brands for things. From dewalt to makita to festool to Powermatic to delta and so on. For the bigger power tools. He is a fan of delta jet and Powermatic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-astragal Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 Laguna and powermatic have both gone away from their roots. Laguna used to sell nice European equipment. Now it's mostly Asian as is Powermatic. Both companies rely on their names now. Very little but paint color separates most of those. Don't get me wrong though I'm still running several Taiwanese machines and I broke an old American PM 28 shaper. Europe seems to be making the best new machines now. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwacked Posted October 31, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 Steve, what names should I be looking at coming from Europe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Crawford Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 How old is the Laguna? maybe it is one of the European ones which were very good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwacked Posted October 31, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 Not sure it's not listed. What years should I be looking for before they switched to Asia? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-astragal Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 Steve, what names should I be looking at coming from Europe? I'm not up completely on new smaller equipment. But scm felder robland Martin knapp Griggio minimax come to mind. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-astragal Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 I bought some shapers and a wide belt from Laguna in 2005. They were some of the last stock of European machines. I'm not sure that is the date of all changes but it might help. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 Tell your multi-million-dollar brother-in-law, no offense...but anyone who okays Dewalt but cuts Laguna for his "approved tools" list...might need a CT scan. Has he ever owned or used a Laguna, or is he just basing his bias on some isolated anecdotal incident? Maybe he heard something negative at one point and it just stuck with him. Maybe he used a machine once that was owned by someone else and it wasn't properly tuned. Mike asked what his approved tool list was, and you said it "depends on the tool." Which I think is appropriate and should be applied to all brands, including Laguna. Some are great, some are not as great. You couldn't get me to buy another Dewalt cordless drill, but I love my 1/2" corded...the thing is a beast. And I like my Laguna 14-12 way more than I like my Powermatic 2800...and I paid less for the former. I'd get to the bottom of his blanket disapproval before I adopt it as my own opinion. My money says he's giving the company an unfair shake for one reason or another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgreenb Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 Tell your multi-million dollar brother-in-law, no offense...but anyone who okays Dewalt but cuts Laguna for his "approved tools" list...might need a CT scan. Has he ever owned or used a Laguna, or is he just basing his bias on some isolated anecdotal incident? Maybe he heard something negative at one point and it just stuck with him. Maybe he used a machine once that was owned by someone else and it wasn't properly tuned. Mike asked what his approved tool list was, and you said it "depends on the tool." Which I think is appropriate and should be applied to all brands, including Laguna. Some are great, some are not as great. You couldn't get me to buy another Dewalt cordless drill, but I love my 1/2" corded...the thing is a beast. And I like my Laguna 14-12 way more than I like my Powermatic 2800...and I paid less for the former. I'd get to the bottom of his blanket disapproval before I adopt it as my own opinion. My money says he's giving the company an unfair shake for one reason or another. Yup, agreed. I tend to be skeptical of anyone who exhibits blanket disapproval of a particular brand without extensive justification beyond "I used one once and it sucks" or "a friend of a friend of a friend said they suck." But to answer the other OP question - if that bandsaw is in good shape and is going for under $1k, I'd run, not walk, to buy it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChetlovesMer Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 I always giggle when I hear somebody say "Oh it's made in Taiwan, so it's cheaply made, but if its made in Europe it must be good." Have you been to Europe? I can tell you as a guy who deals with them extensively in my "Real Life", Europe is just as hit or miss as the rest of the globe. I have some Italian suppliers whom I've actually become very good friends with who've confessed to me on a number of occasions that "Italy positions itself as the China of Europe." That's their quote not mine. A lot I MEAN A LOT of what comes out of Italy is cheapo crap! Having said that there are a number of really high-end high-quality suppliers in Italy as well. There's a high-tech electronics company I work with "Building all their product in Switzerland." It's all Swiss quality right. Well, I've been to their plant, in truth it's merely a final assembly plant all the components come from China Taiwan, or Vietnam. It says "Made in Switzerland" on the label. Similarly, the company I work with out of Finland does the same thing. I've opened the hood of Mazda's that have U.S. made Ford engines. The car says "Made in Japan". I've seen Chevy's with Toyota Engines. Unless you are going to extensively research the supply chain of any manufacturer, the "Made in Where-Ever" label on the product is more than likely just a tiny part of the story. Okay, I don't want to get banned for becoming political but I do have some experience working in global markets with manufacturing. THUMP! - That's the sound of me jumping off my soap box. I have a close woodworking friend who recently bought the Laguna 14" band saw and he loves it. Seems like all the woodworking magazines have given them a good score as well. If you can get an 18" 220VAC bandsaw for under a grand, I'd jump at it, no matter what brand. I'd also say there's no reason to fear Laguna. I realize my opinion differs from your brother in law's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minorhero Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 There is a larger question here and that is do you really need a 1k 18" bandsaw regardless of whether it is a good deal or not. 14" used bandsaws at the 400 dollar level are pretty common in my part of the world and frankly from what I have seen are common elsewhere in the country as well. The 18" saw you are looking at has a resaw capacity that is pretty gigantic. If you are planning to resaw a live edge slab 18" wide that can be pretty important. But if that is not high on the list than you might want to consider a 14" saw. By all means get a modern one. Heck at the 1k price you can be into a rather nice brand new grizzly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 You need to ask yourself what you plan on using the saw for not what brand to buy. If your just doing hobby stuff a grizzly is likely plenty. If you are wanting to do loads of resawing then NO bandsaw is an option you need a resaw. If you are just going to resaw the occasional board here and there but are going to use the crap out it for everything else then you may want a better saw. Resaw capacitiy is pure BS don't even pay attention to that over inflated number. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwacked Posted October 31, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 Well he's doesn't have a blanket dislike of one brand over another. As I mentioned in one of the posts he has a variety of tools. He just believes in his experience that some tool makers make tools in one area but not so good in another. He just gives me options on what he thinks the brands o should look into for that certain area. For example. My router I picked up he could of easily just said go get a festool like mine. But he didn't. He actually said getting a festool for me would be a waste of money at the moment. I ended up with a variable speed dewalt. It works great for me. In this case I am not sure he has used a laguna bandsaw personally. Although he has enough experience with the majority of everything else I don't feel he would lead me in the wrong direction. Yes laguna may be great but he has his reasons ... Although sometimes not sure what they would be haha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikem Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 For awhile Laguna had gotten a bit of a bad rep do to issues they were having with customer service. My local Woodcraft has been bringing in a lot more of their machines, and they look like they are solid machines. I have always heard good things about the machines themselves, just issues with their customer service. I know about a year or two ago they stated they were going to start working on improving it. Has anyone had any first hand experience if that has been the case? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 Well he's doesn't have a blanket dislike of one brand over another. As I mentioned in one of the posts he has a variety of tools. He just believes in his experience that some tool makers make tools in one area but not so good in another. He just gives me options on what he thinks the brands o should look into for that certain area. Well then in that case he needs to bone up on his Laguna research a little bit. Again I have to echo Mike...the one area where Laguna is almost universally respected - at worst they're net positive - is their bandsaw line. The rest of the tools seem to be up for debate. But they're generally considered one of the better bandsaw manufacturers. I also heard about some customer service issues...but that was probably five years ago. I've had zero issues with their customer service because I've never had to use their customer service...my Laguna works great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 I would add, look at the pics. Is that an equipment sales company or a commercial shop. If that thing was in a commercial shop, it a light duty saw and is likely abused. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChetlovesMer Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 Oh crap, I'm about to get on another soap box. THUMP! => That's the sound of me jumping onto my soapbox! It often bothers me when somebody says "Getting that tool would be a waste of money for you." => Why? If you want a Festool router, and you have the means, GET ONE! There is no reason a hobbyist, weekend warrior, beginner, etc, shouldn't buy the best tool he or she can afford! I've had this argument till I'm blue in the face. I hear so many people say "Oh Festool is no good for beginners." => WHY!?!? Because it is very accurate? Because the dust collection on it is second to none? Because it works really well and very safely? Or is it because its expensive? If you are saying it's because its expensive, I argue its the BEST tool for beginners. If you end up not likely it or the hobby itself, you can sell it for almost what you paid for it. I'm glad you like your variable speed Dewalt. That's great, I'm not arguing you made a bad purchase. But compare the resale value of a Dewalt by percentage to a Festool by percentage.... Maybe the Festool isn't the right tool for you, but just because you are a beginner is no reason not to want the best. THUMP! I just jumped back off my soapbox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwacked Posted October 31, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 Haha I am enjoying your soapbox moments. I agree with you on your points. It is a money issue at the moment. So he worked with me to get the best bang for my buck. He knows I need more expensive tools first then once I get those and I am up and running then I can go back and redo my lineup. So at the moment he's working with my budget just to get functioning before I worry about top of the line tools. @PB ... Good cal on the abused part. I have not inquired about this bandsaw yet so I am not sure what it was used for. It will definitely be part of the questions I ask. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 I have to give people credit for making due with what they have and can afford. When it comes to shop equipment anything you buy that will fit in your shop is not going to be all that great. I don't care if you have a shop full of Powermatics biggest machines you still have a very mediocre very limited set up at best. Part of the skill of working with this sort of equipment is making due. The woodworking itself is really not hard at all, the doing it with large limitations is the real skill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vyrolan Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 I don't care if you have a shop full of Powermatics biggest machines you still have a very mediocre very limited set up at best. Particle Board, Crusher of Dreams 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 PB sees woodworking through the lens of a professional working in a production environment. Come with me, the hobbyist, and glimpse some reality, where a shop full of Powermatic's biggest machines is FAR beyond what's necessary to produce totally satisfactory and satisfying work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 PB sees woodworking through the lens of a professional working in a production environment. Come with me, the hobbyist, and glimpse some reality, where a shop full of Powermatic's biggest machines is FAR beyond what's necessary to produce totally satisfactory and satisfying work. I didn't say you need big toys. In fact I credited those that do this without them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vyrolan Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 You did PB, and I agree with you. You crushed those dreams with the truth; it's a good dose of reality and a valuable perspective. I wanted to say more but it would have taken away from the simplicity of my supposed-to-be-a-joke post. Like any other joke or bit of sarcasm needing explaining, it's obviously not funny. =p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 You said a shop full of huge Powermatic tools would be a mediocre and limited shop...yeah, maybe if you're in the world of production work and trying to pump out a hundred units of this or that a day. I don't feel mediocre or limited at all, and I don't have ANY huge tools. In the world of the hobbyist, it's about doing things well, not necessarily doing things efficiently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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