drzaius Posted November 8, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 8, 2014 Another point; if a factory turns out a high end brand, it shows that they are capable of building quality & likely have a good QC program. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drzaius Posted November 8, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 8, 2014 I've looked at the Griz 690 & 1023RL on their website & there are a few differences in the specs, but does anyone know what the essential difference is between the 2 lines? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted November 8, 2014 Report Share Posted November 8, 2014 I'm not suggesting industrial just don't buy into the word. The k3 is 3600 US dollars. If I had to discribe griz in a few words factory seconds is how I'd describe them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drzaius Posted November 8, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 8, 2014 They only carry the K3 Comfort which is over $6500. The basic & Winner are special order. But even the basic is well north of $4000 Canadian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshC1501 Posted November 8, 2014 Report Share Posted November 8, 2014 This is becoming more complicated. Originally wanting to spend about $2300 for a 1.75 HP saw. A lot are saying 3 HP is the way to go. So then I'm up to $3500 or so. I tend to be a go big or go home type, but that is a lot of cash & this is only a hobby for me. Grizzly seems to have a pretty good fan base, but not being able to see & touch one makes it difficult to go that way. Most of what I'm reading about them is that they are a great value, but not really high in quality. If I'm buying something like that I'd like to see just what concessions I'd be making & if I'd be happy with them. You people have certainly given me lots to think about & I thank you for it. Quality is a relative terms, depends what you are comparing too. Is it a Powermatic, no it is not, but it is also not a contractor saw. When I got my saw, I didn't have one quality issue during the setup, and 8 months later, I have found nothing to complain about. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted November 8, 2014 Report Share Posted November 8, 2014 Crooks they are on sale. 3699 U.S. and as with felder you nurse an extra 100 maybe more discount. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knotscott Posted November 8, 2014 Report Share Posted November 8, 2014 I've looked at the Griz 690 & 1023RL on their website & there are a few differences in the specs, but does anyone know what the essential difference is between the 2 lines? The G0690 uses a traditional swing arm for the arbor, meaning the blade travels in an arc as it raises. The G1023RL uses dovetail ways and a vertical screw thread to elevate the arbor straight up and down. The G0690 also uses a traditional triple belt drive system, whereas the G1023 uses a modern serpentine belt. (Check the exploded pics on the online parts list). The G0690 has a bit more rip capacity to the right, but either one can easily be slid ~ 10" to the right to gain more. The G1023 has a blade shroud...some love it, some say it clogs easily...the G0690 just drops the dust straight to the bottom of the ramped cabinet. The G1023 uses the Shop Fox Classic fence...the 0690 uses a similar fence that's the same as the other presumably identical saws shown in the pic. The G0690 uses an Asian made Leeson brand motor, the G1023 uses a generic Asian motor. The G0690 is made in China, the 1023 is made in Taiwan. G0690: G1023RL: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drzaius Posted November 8, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 8, 2014 PB: With the exchange rate we are paying somewhere around 15% more. Knotscott: Interesting. I like the modern belt, the blade shroud seems like it would capture the dust better, the difference in rip capacity isn't a big deal for me, the Leeson motor is probably better. Which fence is better? Is the swing arm or dovetail considered better. I don't see a clear winner between the 2. What do you think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted November 8, 2014 Report Share Posted November 8, 2014 I hate participating in these threads because it's so subjective and there are too many opinions thrown in the mix to make any one of them really meaningful. But I think Scott has given great, fact-based insight and good advice for the hobbyist in mind, and Don is the man to listen to if you're getting ready to go into business. My personal experience: I have a G0690 and I'm very happy with it. The fence is garbage and the dust collection is mediocre at best, especially with a ZCI. But it comes on when I press the switch, cuts through 8/4 anything like butter with the right blade, and I haven't had to fiddle with a single adjustment since I originally put it together. If I were on a budget, which I was when I bought it, it's still the saw I would buy today. If I had money to burn, it would be the 3HP SS. Forget the PM...for the miniscule price difference, it's a no-brainer to get the safety feature. They're both of similar quality. I wouldn't even consider a saw less than 3HP. But that's me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drzaius Posted November 8, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 8, 2014 Eric, you speak wisdom. Here's what it's down to; I need to decide how much to spend, $3500 for the SS or about half that for a Griz. If I go Griz, I need to decide if it's the G0690 or G1023. Definitely going with 3 HP either way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmaichel Posted November 8, 2014 Report Share Posted November 8, 2014 What about General Tools? Do they still make a table saw that is made in Canada under the General Tools name and not General International? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knotscott Posted November 8, 2014 Report Share Posted November 8, 2014 PB: With the exchange rate we are paying somewhere around 15% more. Knotscott: Interesting. I like the modern belt, the blade shroud seems like it would capture the dust better, the difference in rip capacity isn't a big deal for me, the Leeson motor is probably better. Which fence is better? Is the swing arm or dovetail considered better. I don't see a clear winner between the 2. What do you think? Both saws have about equal followings.....both heavily positive. I haven't read complaints about either motor, so am not sure it makes much difference. The swing arm design is more proven, but I like the dovetail ways and elevation screw for precision....it's a more updated design. My Shop Fox W1677 is an older pre-riving knife saw that's more similar to the G0690 design, it's been great, but if I were buying new, I like the concept of internal design of the new G1023RL series better....just my opinion. I've read a few comments that mentioned that Grizzly's tech staff likes the design of the 1023 better also, but that's 2nd hand info. Many, many people have faced (and posted about) the same dilemna...there really doesn't appear to be a clear winner. Your view about shelling out big bucks for an SS, or getting good value with Grizzly make the most sense to me also....only you can make that final decision! Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drzaius Posted November 8, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 8, 2014 Knotscott: Thanks, your opinion is appreciated. I think I'm leaning towards the 1023. James: It's all General International now. There are still some General machines in the supply stream & some machines are still assembled here from offshore components. I've got an 80-100L jointer (International) & it's a great machine, but the table saws that the local dealers have just don't do it for me, mainly because of the really crappy fences they come with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted November 8, 2014 Report Share Posted November 8, 2014 FWIW, I went with the G0690 because at the time that I bought mine, they didn't make the 1023 with the riving knife. Aside from that, I saw no compelling reason to go with one over the other. Except I like the paint job on the 690 better. They're both gonna cut wood with no problem and save you a boatload of money over the PM or SS. I'm in a better place financially now than I was when I bought my Griz, so I would probably go with the SS if I were buying today, but I have no regrets about my purchase...certainly no regrets big enough to upgrade now to the SS when IMO the only significant (real world) upgrade I would be getting is the safety feature. Rambling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weithman5 Posted November 9, 2014 Report Share Posted November 9, 2014 I had this bone headed idea that I would buy a couple grizzly 5hp saws and put in a huge table for four saws. The grizzly saws were not all that. It took less time to resell them than it did to have them shipped. 3hp is enough for most people but as is 1.75 just depends on what you like doing. If you don't think you will ever work with 8/4 stock then a 1.75 is fine. Personally I would never buy another "american" style saw PM SS none of them. I'd take even the smallest hammer K3 over any of them for a hobby shop unfortunately they are expensive and start at about $3600. If I was setting up a hobby shop I'd buy the 4hp Hammer and a Festoon track saw. If I could start over Id buy a Felder all in one and almost did but was stuck in the american heavy metal mentality and regret it today. Where do you find these at this price? Best I found for cheapest model is 5900 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drzaius Posted November 9, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 9, 2014 Lots of looking done today. The Craftex is out, too many annoying quality & design issues. I found a General Int. with a good fence. Comparing costs for the saw, mobile base & shipping: SawStop PCS 36": $3,904 Good: Great mobile base, very good build quality, reportedly good dust collection, great fence, safety, easily removed guard & riving knife Gen. Int. 50-276RC30 M1: $2,080 Good: very good build quality, very good fence, easy to make zero clearance inserts, easily removed guard & riving knife Grizzly G1023R: $1715 Good: high value for $, reported good quality I'll probably go for the General over the Grizzly, but I still haven't ruled out the SawStop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted November 9, 2014 Report Share Posted November 9, 2014 Where do you find these at this price? Best I found for cheapest model is 5900 You buy most every euro machines direct not from a dealer. Go to felder and get a log in and you can see all current prices. I'm pretty sure you don't have to be a commercial shop to get a log in. Euro reps are usually pretty cool and many will hook you up with a demo price. Felder and minimax reps are usually pretty cool. Dealers are selling at full list. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weithman5 Posted November 11, 2014 Report Share Posted November 11, 2014 How about the grizzly G0623X sliding table saw? About 3200 delivered. Granted this is not much cheaper than the better price of the hammer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drzaius Posted November 12, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 12, 2014 A slider just isn't that big a thing for me. It'd be nice & all, but i'd rather put those extra dollars elsewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pghmyn Posted November 12, 2014 Report Share Posted November 12, 2014 There is one on Amazon for $1600 - in original box. 3HP - 52" Sawstop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Cancelleri Posted November 12, 2014 Report Share Posted November 12, 2014 There is one on Amazon for $1600 - in original box. 3HP - 52" Sawstop These are not legit and are scams. They don't accept amazon payment and tell you that you need to send them payment via paypal and they will arrange shipping. When I bought my lathe, there was the same lathe I bought for 1300 instead of 2300, I contacted to ask them and received fake paypal request emails to send them money. Luckily I don't fall for scams like this, but I'm sure some people have. Amazon does an ok job with keeping these scammers at bay, but they keep recreating accounts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pghmyn Posted November 13, 2014 Report Share Posted November 13, 2014 These are not legit and are scams. They don't accept amazon payment and tell you that you need to send them payment via paypal and they will arrange shipping. When I bought my lathe, there was the same lathe I bought for 1300 instead of 2300, I contacted to ask them and received fake paypal request emails to send them money. Luckily I don't fall for scams like this, but I'm sure some people have. Amazon does an ok job with keeping these scammers at bay, but they keep recreating accounts. Good thing to point out. I never really looked into it further than seeing the price and condition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shane Jimerfield Posted November 13, 2014 Report Share Posted November 13, 2014 Dropped the bucks on a Grizzly G1023RLX today - should be here Friday. Contemplated the G0691 too - that's was a tough climb - but I think that the newer technology of the serpentine belt drive in the 1023 series, and dust collection is where I wanted to go. There are few trade-offs here and there between the two, but both seem excellent and are probably great. That white paint job sure is purdy though. Given my recent missive I'm hoping this turns out well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
estesbubba Posted November 13, 2014 Report Share Posted November 13, 2014 Shane I think you'll be happy with your choice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pghmyn Posted November 13, 2014 Report Share Posted November 13, 2014 Dropped the bucks on a Grizzly G1023RLX today - should be here Friday. Contemplated the G0691 too - that's was a tough climb - but I think that the newer technology of the serpentine belt drive in the 1023 series, and dust collection is where I wanted to go. There are few trade-offs here and there between the two, but both seem excellent and are probably great. That white paint job sure is purdy though. Given my recent missive I'm hoping this turns out well. Hope that you enjoy your choice Let us know what you think about the saw - and don't leave out any details. I know PB didn't have too many good things to say, but I'm sure the usage of the saw will be dramatically different between you and him. I've read plenty negative reviews about my G0715P, but I really can't complain about the unit for what it is. It bogged down on some 8/4 cherry, but I've never changed or cleaned my blade since I bought the saw. That is a long overdue procedure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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