Pwk5017 Posted November 8, 2014 Report Share Posted November 8, 2014 I picked up a grizzly GO441 cyclone off craigslist for $700 this week, and I am pumped to get it in place. The guy partially assembled it, but never used it. I currently have it in three main pieces, the cyclone body and impeller housing, the motor and impeller, and the filter. Unfortunately, I am vertically challenged in my basement shop. I have 85” to the bottom of the joists, 94.5-95” to the bottom of the subfloor. Thankfully, the collection drum can be reduced by 10” by taking off an extender ring. I can also trim a few inches off the flexible hose connecting the drum to the cyclone body. This leaves me with a total height of 94”, which means I need to sneak the motor up between the joists to have .5-1” to spare. The motor is not light(maybe 100lbs?) and the cyclone body isn’t light either(also about 100lbs) and together they are too much for me and my 5’-2” girlfriend. I need to stand the cyclone body upright and then bolt the motor to the top of it, but I am at a loss for how I can then lift the whole thing up a few feet for me to build a wood stand for it to rest on. The measurements are so tight, that I don’t think assembling it horizontally and then tilting it up will work. I will hit the subfloor before it goes full 90 degrees. Any bright ideas on how to do this safely and effectively would be most appreciated. Patrick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted November 8, 2014 Report Share Posted November 8, 2014 I’ve used two methods to lift cyclones into place (actually four, but two are a bit too adventurous to admit)… They both cost about the same: 1-Block&Tackle method – purchase b&t from Northern Tool, bolt to ceiling, lift away… 2-Pizza&Beer method – purchase p&b, invite a couple of friends over... Depending on ceiling height, method #2 may work better for your situation… Note: Method #1 has the advantage of securing a b&t for future projects. Very useful things to have around the home... Don't purchase a $19.95 b&t from HF -- get something well made... If you're inexperienced with securing/using a b&t, it may not be a good method for you... Note: if you employ method #2, secure cyclone prior to proceeding to the beer portion of the method... PS: For very heavy units without clear overhead, I've done it with a shop-made frame and a pair of hydraulic jacks (also useful things to have around the house)... I'd only use this method if you're stuck and you, your girlfriend and/or a friend has some experience lifting heavy objects... If you're stuck, email me... Take some photos of the cyclone and where you plan to place it... PPS: For a couple hundred bucks, you can get yourself a fairly nice shop lift --- it's also a handy item if you plan to get into heavy iron. I've got three tools in my shop that weigh in excess of #1500 and a shop crane comes in handy... This is the one I've got: http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200305213_200305213 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted November 8, 2014 Report Share Posted November 8, 2014 Mine is the 5hp model. Cheap chain hoist $30 from import tool store. We used a ladder with a 2x10 tied to the ladder and nailed to the roof. Probably should have had a priest standing by. A couple hours in the hot tub helped with the back pain. The motor housing is well over a 100 lbs I'm guessing 250 300 on a 3hp unit. 4-5 on 5hp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted November 8, 2014 Report Share Posted November 8, 2014 ==>We used a ladder with a 2x10 tied to the ladder and nailed to the roof That's one of the methods that I didn't want to mention. We once used two 10' step ladders (Type A1) with a 2x12 across the top... It worked great, but I don't think it's a very safe approach and not recomended. The unit we lifted was a lot heavier than the OP's G0441.. ==>should have had a priest standing by Considering the language that normally accompanies a project like this, I’d think a Navy Chaplain would be more apropos… ==>I'm guessing 250 300 on a 3hp unit. 4-5 on 5hp Looked-up his model on Grizzly's website: 351lbs. At $700, looks like a good deal, depending on prior usage... BTW: No matter how you do this, tether a safety lanyard to the ceiling, wall, whatever. Depending on how you mount this puppy, it's the bolting-in where things get dicey. It can take a couple of minutes to get enough bolts set to stabilize a very top-heavy assembly. You don't what this coming down on someone while you're bolting-in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted November 8, 2014 Report Share Posted November 8, 2014 250 -300 is pounds the motor housing weighs not dollars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pwk5017 Posted November 9, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 9, 2014 ==>We used a ladder with a 2x10 tied to the ladder and nailed to the roof That's one of the methods that I didn't want to mention. We once used two 10' step ladders (Type A1) with a 2x12 across the top... It worked great, but I don't think it's a very safe approach and not recomended. The unit we lifted was a lot heavier than the OP's G0441.. ==>should have had a priest standing by Considering the language that normally accompanies a project like this, I’d think a Navy Chaplain would be more apropos… ==>I'm guessing 250 300 on a 3hp unit. 4-5 on 5hp Looked-up his model on Grizzly's website: 351lbs. At $700, looks like a good deal, depending on prior usage... BTW: No matter how you do this, tether a safety lanyard to the ceiling, wall, whatever. Depending on how you mount this puppy, it's the bolting-in where things get dicey. It can take a couple of minutes to get enough bolts set to stabilize a very top-heavy assembly. You don't what this coming down on someone while you're bolting-in. It was brand new, wasn't fully assembled. I also picked up a fair amount of 7" spiral duct with it. I'm pleased with the purchase. Goes to show that if you are patient enough, the right deals do show up on Craigslist. For frame of reference, I've been searching near daily for 6-7 months for the right cyclone. This isn't a clear vue, but it has the air ramp, neutral vane, and a 15.5" impeller, so I think it's a pretty good "poor man's" substitute. I think I will eventually want to retrofit two nano filters from wynn environmental, but that's a few months of saving away. I realize the inherent danger involved, but I really like the ladder idea. Good call with tethering it. I don't want this beast crashing to the ground and breaking. Also don't want it wildly swinging around in my basement like a wrecking ball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted November 9, 2014 Report Share Posted November 9, 2014 ==>I really like the ladder idea Afraid you'd say that... If you go that route, lift a couple lighter things first... Test the stability of the setup... It's not just the weight, it's how the weight's distributed... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpt life Posted November 9, 2014 Report Share Posted November 9, 2014 I have never assembled one so please forgive what may be a dumb question. Why can't it be bolted together and tipped into place? Wall anchor tackle is not supporting the full weight and no tricky positioning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted November 9, 2014 Report Share Posted November 9, 2014 ==>^^^ You'd think so, but it rairly works that way... Most setups connect drum to cyclone with flex pipe... It's a non-structural connection. As a side note: you know you've got good SP and sealed ductwork when you flip the switch and the drum lifts clear of the floor. When empty, the cyclone can lift the drum clear with any three blast gates open. When 3/4 full, the cyclone can lift the drum with any single blast gate open. I've got a bin sensor, but never really need it... When the drum rests on the floor, it's time to empty it. The key is properly sealed ductwork. @OP... Get yourself a smoke stick to test your setup. Even if you think your ductwork is sealed, it won't be... A smoke test is the only way to tell. I do this annually and always find a small leak around at least one blast gate or some fitting that has a new and mysterious dent on the side (usually after I've had a shop helper in for a project). This is the one I use: http://www.mcmaster.com/#4101t5/=uiqqvx. It’s quite pricy and you can find something similar for a lot less – but McMaster-Carr is a known entity, so I don’t end-up with cr*p kit. The advantage of this product is the 'on/off' feature. I can find a leak, extinguish the smoke, repair the leak, re-ignite and retest in under a minute. Very handy... BTW: bin sensors are also quite handy: http://www.oneida-air.com/inventory.asp?CatId={4CA9A078-61CB-463F-B843-8C681E38534F}-- why, when you overfill a bin, the dust fills the cyclone and you can damage the motor/impellor, damage the filter media and/or both.... I'll admit to having this happen to me just the once, but $640 for a new HEPA cartridge cured my inattentiveness (I also wired a buzzer in-line with the warning light). PS. You may want to investigate new controls. The controls Grizzly has been using are.... shall we say... not so good... Oneida's latest control set has an integral bin sensor that automatically shuts-off the cyclone when the particulate is about 2" below the top of the bin. It also sports keyfob start/stop... To seal your ductwork, use foil duct tape: http://www.mcmaster.com/#76145a61/=uiqttu --- not 'duck tape' or 'duct tape' or any other nonsense -- but sealant tape designed for ductwork. There is a big diference. While you're at it, get some HVAC sealant: http://www.mcmaster.com/#73335a65/=uiqvtl for fittings, blast gates, etc. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted November 9, 2014 Report Share Posted November 9, 2014 For a standard interior application there is no reason not to just flop it up on a ledger board. It has to be bolted to 2x any ways prior to hanging. The only reason mine needed heavy lifting was the height and the intake being turned to go through a hole in the building. Two guys should have no issue lifting onto a ledger. Once it's there your home free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pwk5017 Posted November 24, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 24, 2014 Agreed, tilting it into place was my first attempt. Cross bracing in between the joists foiled that plan. I ended up searching craigslist for hydraulic carts and picked up a harbor freight model for $40. My first harbor freight purchase, and I couldnt be happier I bought this thing. I stood it up on the cart and wheeled it to its final resting place, then easily used the hydraulic lift to pump it into place. Threw some 3/8" bolts into the concrete wall, and now it's rock solid. I ended with 1.5-2" of space above the motor, and about a half inch clearance to get the lid off the barrel. It's a tight fit to say the least, but I can't wait to complete the duct runs and see how it performs. The arm test already blew my 1.5hp shopfox out of the water. I'm hopeful that this machine will keep my basement shop much cleaner and healthier. Whoops, pic is too large. I can't resize on the iPad. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pwk5017 Posted November 24, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 24, 2014 Pictures always make things a bit better. I know everyone will be jealous of my super sweet basement color scheme. Im not sure what they were thinking back in 1958, but it wasn't good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
estesbubba Posted November 24, 2014 Report Share Posted November 24, 2014 I have the same cyclone and also need to put on wall. How did you end up doing it? I also plan to build an outer support like you did just to take some weight off the wall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted November 24, 2014 Report Share Posted November 24, 2014 Do you realize that the bottom bracket that you did not install holds the majority of the downward weight. That bracket was the ledger needed for easy installation but without it you have all the weight on the motor bracket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted November 24, 2014 Report Share Posted November 24, 2014 ==>Do you realize that the bottom bracket that you did not install holds the majority of the downward weight Excellent catch... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pwk5017 Posted November 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 Do you realize that the bottom bracket that you did not install holds the majority of the downward weight. That bracket was the ledger needed for easy installation but without it you have all the weight on the motor bracket. Yeah, I didn't have the actual bracket that you attach to the board and wall. It's just a simple L bracket, but I had to order that, and the plastic catch bag for the filter. Im hoping those parts come today from Grizzly. Gotta make hay when the sun is shining, and I was going to have trouble getting my brother and dad to help any other day. My brother is headed back to college this weekend, so It was Sunday or no day. With it up, I seriously question the need for the other bracket, but I already ordered the $6 part, so it's going up in addition. That motor housing is 11ga steel. Mike, I cut the 12" board to 36-38", then clamped it to the motor assembly. Once clamped, I took a sharpie and marked all the holes. Drilled those, then flipped the whole cyclone upright onto the hydraulic cart, wheeled that over to the wall, jacked it up till I hit the subfloor, dropped it 1.5-2". Hammer drilled my holes, mounted the board, left my anchor bolts(3/8" x 5") about 1.5-2" proud of the board, then pumped the cyclone up higher than the bolts, and lowered it down onto them. Simple matter of tightening the bolts snug after it was in place. I cant stress how easy that hydraulic cart made my life. It was like a 20 minute job. You will want support opposite the wall like I have. This will maintain the cyclone in a perfectly perpendicular position. Without it, the cyclone has a tendency to tip inwards a bit. Your experience my vary, but I think it's a good thing to have prepared before hand. Its also handy for mounting the control box on. Goodluck with it, ask away if you have more specific questions. Patrick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 You will want support opposite the wall like I have. This will maintain the cyclone in a perfectly perpendicular position. Without it, the cyclone has a tendency to tip inwards a bit. Or use the bracket, no legs needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 ==>I didn't have the actual bracket that you attach to the board and wall Not that I want to spend your money.... But I'd really get the bracket... I haven't done a cyclone install in a while, but I'm pretty sure the purpose-made bracket has a good deal to do with the stability (not quite the right word)... robustness? of the setup... I'm looking at the photo you posted (grew-up in a house with almost that tile scheme) and don't think the scafold would be a good long-term solution... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pwk5017 Posted November 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 PB, you are really hung up on that wall bracket(pun intended). Actually, it wouldn't have done diddly squat for me. My install was different from doing it by the books. My cyclone was already partially assembled when I purchased it off the CL guy. The filter was in the box, but the motor and cyclone were mounted to a wall. The Grizzly instructions have you attach the motor housing to the wall, then build from there. I didn't feel like disassembling mine, so I did things a little differently. As far as mike is concerned, assembling it horizontally and lifting it into place was pretty easy. This is if he was unable to follow the Grizzly instructions. They wouldn't have worked for me, because the motor is positioned between two joists--no clearance for the impeller blades to clear the housing and drop into the housing. He might be in a similar ceiling height situation, or he might have 14' ceilings. Just checked, the bracket cost me $22.50. The filter bag was $6.I also ordered a new barrel seal, which was $6-9, I think. Pretty easy to order Grizzly parts, which is nice. This is my first piece of equipment from them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 The bracket holds the cyclone out from the wall. It also acts like a shelf bracket. My brain wants to say compressional force but that may not be the right word. The motor housing acts as a shelf where the cyclone unit itself acts as a angled brace under the shelf when attached to the wall with the bracket. Using legs and the motor frame allows all the weight to go straight down. No different than installing a simple cabinet you want the force going to the wall not straight down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 ==>the bracket cost me $22.50 That's $22.50 well spent... I'm not sure what Oneida charged me, but I bet it wasn't $22.50 -- just checked, $140+shipping... I get that the unit was assembled when you took delivery... Maybe I'm too OCD, but I tend to follow the manual when possible... You've now got a hydrolic lift, so jockying the cyclone onto a bracket should be a snap... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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