Workofwood Posted November 8, 2014 Report Share Posted November 8, 2014 ive been commissioned to build a bunch of stand up desks and they want 3 color options. I've built them out of red oak. The first color I used Minwax red mahogany stain and it turned out great. On the second set of desks I used general finishes Java gel stain, and it's pretty dark. But they want the last set to be even darker. What should I do to get a darker finish with it still looking like wood. I don't want to just put on another layer of the jav stain to make it darker, I'd like a darker tone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pghmyn Posted November 8, 2014 Report Share Posted November 8, 2014 You could ebonize it. If that's the correct word. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdwerker Posted November 8, 2014 Report Share Posted November 8, 2014 Dye. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhighlander Posted November 8, 2014 Report Share Posted November 8, 2014 Red oak turns black if you apply vinegar that has had steel wool soaked in it for a couple of days. Almost purple, if there is plenty of iron in the vinegar. Whatever you try, test on a scrap. Methods like this have a good bit of variability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatworks Today Posted November 9, 2014 Report Share Posted November 9, 2014 Red oak turns black if you apply vinegar that has had steel wool soaked in it for a couple of days. Almost purple, if there is plenty of iron in the vinegar. Whatever you try, test on a scrap. Methods like this have a good bit of variability. I played around with this last Winter. The heart wood does go dark exactly as you said, but if there's any sapwood on the piece it will jump out and slap you in the face! It turns a light violet color and looks a little funky ... I have a crap load of red oak and one thing I did was to essentially "paint" with a dark general finishes glaze. Slather it on and wipe off. Keep layering until you get the tone you're looking for. For a rustic appearance use a bristle brush, more uniform use a foam brush.. Topcoat and it looks great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatworks Today Posted November 9, 2014 Report Share Posted November 9, 2014 Here's two examples. Left was with foam, and other was bristle brush. Not the best lighting, though... Doll toys for daughter (both red oak) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob493 Posted November 9, 2014 Report Share Posted November 9, 2014 analine or alcohol based dyes work great on oak! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Workofwood Posted November 9, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 9, 2014 Thanks for the replies guys. I think I'm going to try the glaze method from boat works. I love the idea of ebonizing with steel wool and vinegar but it is a very large piece and has a bunch going on so I think it would be tough to get it uniform. I'll post some pictures when I get a chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatworks Today Posted November 9, 2014 Report Share Posted November 9, 2014 Just make sure to do some testing first, the glaze dries very quickly (within a minute or two).. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob493 Posted November 9, 2014 Report Share Posted November 9, 2014 Thanks for the replies guys. I think I'm going to try the glaze method from boat works. I love the idea of ebonizing with steel wool and vinegar but it is a very large piece and has a bunch going on so I think it would be tough to get it uniform. I'll post some pictures when I get a chance. What top coat are you planning? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted November 9, 2014 Report Share Posted November 9, 2014 Spray stain. Easy and consistent no experimenting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Workofwood Posted November 9, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 9, 2014 I actually haven't been top coating on the other pieces. The customers wanted a wood feel, however this might show my ignorance on finishing. Is there a topcoat that would cover the glaze stain and still feel like wood? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob493 Posted November 9, 2014 Report Share Posted November 9, 2014 *NOTE*-> These are my OPINIONS, theres always more than 1 way to skin a cat, and people do get great results in other ways. Just how I do things, and just a different point of view. In my opinion, wood ALWAYS needs a "top coat", for many reasons . If they want the "wood feel" use an oil finish. Not an "oil like product" ("tung oil finish" is pretty much just clear paint). There are just too many reasons why bare wood is not a good idea. Grain raising, warping, dirt, etc. Oil will patina nicley, and keep a lovely feel to it, but it'll at least offer some marginal protection (at least against relative humidity and finger dirts). You can wax it with beeswax to keep the wood looking good. With that, if you use an oil based stain... then cover it with oil.. youre gonna have issues. An analine or alcohol based dye is truly the way to go with this. You can mix literally any color you want, it'll soak in and get nice, even coverage, and you can oil over top of it. If you use an oil based stain, you'd have to use a satin wipe on poly. Is there any particular reason you're dead set on the glaze stain? It can have nice results, but it never really gets as even as a dye will (may be part of the appeal of it, I dunno). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Workofwood Posted November 9, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 9, 2014 Bob, thanks so much for the detail. No I'm not set on the glaze, just thought that was he consenses. I like the idea of the dye. Would you mind, I know this should probably be understood but I want to be sure, giving me your opinion on which alcohol based dye to use and then what brand of oil top coat you prefer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob493 Posted November 9, 2014 Report Share Posted November 9, 2014 Bob, thanks so much for the detail. No I'm not set on the glaze, just thought that was he consenses. I like the idea of the dye. Would you mind, I know this should probably be understood but I want to be sure, giving me your opinion on which alcohol based dye to use and then what brand of oil top coat you prefer? With oak I have had GREAT results with using http://www.amazon.com/Fiebings-Leather-Dye-Black-4oz/dp/B000HHM20M/ref=sr_1_sc_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1415576030&sr=8-1-spell&keywords=fyebings+dye If you decide to go this route, get the smallest bottle, because a little bit goes and astoundingly long way. No mixing or anything required, just apply it and it soaks in super fast. For oil, I am fan of boiled linseed oil myself. The stuff from home depot/lowes works great, and doesn't take 300 weeks to dry. You apply a wash coat, then let it soak for a bit, then wipe off the excess. Then you let it dry for 24 hours, buff it with 000 steel wool, then apply a coat with a rag, rubbing it in. let that dry, buff with 0000 then repeat until you have the desired result. I will build up over time, but 3 coats would leave a "Bare wood" feel, while offering some modicum of protection from the elements. It's also not shiny, and has a lovely "warmth" when applied to raw wood (not applicable in this case due to the black dye). All I can say, stay far away from anything that says "*insert oil here* finish", i.e. formby's "tung oil finish". They are basically wipe on polyurethanes, and usually dry really shiny. Teak oil would be a great substitute for BLO. edit: this is what this dye will do Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Workofwood Posted November 10, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2014 Great! So you would buy the black leather dye and then do I mix it with alcohol? Thanks for being so patient with me, I've really just never looked much into finishes and now it's come back to bite me. Regardless of how good my woodworking is, if the finish looks junky the customer doesn't think it's worth the price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob493 Posted November 10, 2014 Report Share Posted November 10, 2014 Great! So you would buy the black leather dye and then do I mix it with alcohol? Thanks for being so patient with me, I've really just never looked much into finishes and now it's come back to bite me. Regardless of how good my woodworking is, if the finish looks junky the customer doesn't think it's worth the price. Needs no mixing at all. Just shake the bottle, and apply (it even comes with an applicator). Honestly, if you go this route, try it out on a scrap piece, and in about 3 seconds you will understand my tenacity on the subject. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPCV_Woodworker Posted November 13, 2014 Report Share Posted November 13, 2014 Needs no mixing at all. Just shake the bottle, and apply (it even comes with an applicator). Honestly, if you go this route, try it out on a scrap piece, and in about 3 seconds you will understand my tenacity on the subject. I'm ordering this and trying it out. Got a customer that wants a red oak table to be black but still have the full effect of the grain. I think you just saved me a few dozen hours smelling like a pickle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob493 Posted November 13, 2014 Report Share Posted November 13, 2014 I'm ordering this and trying it out. Got a customer that wants a red oak table to be black but still have the full effect of the grain. I think you just saved me a few dozen hours smelling like a pickle haha awesome Hope it works out for you! If you don't like it, you're out 7 bucks and have a ton left over for when you do actually need it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brendon_t Posted November 14, 2014 Report Share Posted November 14, 2014 With oak I have had GREAT results with using http://www.amazon.com/Fiebings-Leather-Dye-Black-4oz/dp/B000HHM20M/ref=sr_1_sc_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1415576030&sr=8-1-spell&keywords=fyebings+dye If you decide to go this route, get the smallest bottle, because a little bit goes and astoundingly long way. No mixing or anything required, just apply it and it soaks in super fast. For oil, I am fan of boiled linseed oil myself. The stuff from home depot/lowes works great, and doesn't take 300 weeks to dry. You apply a wash coat, then let it soak for a bit, then wipe off the excess. Then you let it dry for 24 hours, buff it with 000 steel wool, then apply a coat with a rag, rubbing it in. let that dry, buff with 0000 then repeat until you have the desired result. I will build up over time, but 3 coats would leave a "Bare wood" feel, while offering some modicum of protection from the elements. It's also not shiny, and has a lovely "warmth" when applied to raw wood (not applicable in this case due to the black dye). All I can say, stay far away from anything that says "*insert oil here* finish", i.e. formby's "tung oil finish". They are basically wipe on polyurethanes, and usually dry really shiny. Teak oil would be a great substitute for BLO. edit: this is what this dye will doAny idea if this dye would dye the red oak frame and moulding and QSWO panels to the same color? This door was supposed to be painted until she saw it bare then wanted to stain after all. Edit: sorry but the site will not let me upload the photo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brendon_t Posted November 14, 2014 Report Share Posted November 14, 2014 Here we go. My iPad got it to upload. The door owner really doesn't want to paint it. I used the qswo for demential stability thinking it was being painted. I'm totally up a creek here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhighlander Posted November 14, 2014 Report Share Posted November 14, 2014 The dye should get the colors pretty close. Have time to test it on scraps first? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brendon_t Posted November 14, 2014 Report Share Posted November 14, 2014 I've got all the time I need. The recipient of the piece is my mother so. .. I think I'll pick up a bottle to test out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brendon_t Posted November 17, 2014 Report Share Posted November 17, 2014 I picked up the dark brown dye, it really looked great on testers do I did 1/4 of the inside of the door. Looks great. Follow up question, Will take it's own thread as to not jak this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob493 Posted November 17, 2014 Report Share Posted November 17, 2014 Any idea if this dye would dye the red oak frame and moulding and QSWO panels to the same color? This door was supposed to be painted until she saw it bare then wanted to stain after all. Edit: sorry but the site will not let me upload the photo. This stuff turns any wood black. I mean legit black. Ash, maple, oak (white or red), cedar, walnut, rosewood, etc. You will need to apply more than one coat as mentioned previously to get it a flat color. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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