How to reinforce the joints on a picture frame??

[jgfore]

I am making a very large picture frame for my parents anniversary. Normally, I would just biscuit the mitered corners and glue. This is normally strong enough, but this frame is going to be 24"x36". Big enough for all 17 members of our family (including grandkids).

Anyway, I am afraid that with this much wait, I will need something more that just a biscuit. The Cherry or Wlanut (have not decided yet) frame sides will be 5.5" wide and 1.25" thick (maybe thicker).

I thought about running a dowel rod through the corners, but I just wantedsome other ideas.

Thanks

Jeff

[Beechwood Chip]

You could inset a mending plate into the back (like #19 in this list). You could make the mending plate from plywood and use glue, if (like me) you don't like using metal fasteners.

[mlehikoinen]

There was an article in the August issue of Popular Woodworking on Mitred half lap joints. That makes for a lot of face grain glue surface!

For more interesting visual elements, another thought would be mitre keys. It could be strips or dovetail keys.

[Vic]

You could also use spline, much the same as you normally use your biscuits. They can show or not, whatever you prefer.

[mlehikoinen]

You could inset a mending plate into the back (like #19 in this list). You could make the mending plate from plywood and use glue, if (like me) you don't like using metal fasteners.

Great idea! If you do a mending plate out of plywood, I would make it triangular to give more support. A piece of plywood in the shape of an L may not lend much in the way of shearing strength.

[RenaissanceWW]

I have seen Charles Neil do this. Glue up the mitered frame as normal. Then use a forstner bit to drill out a wide circle on the back of the joint may 1/3 of the total thickness. Then inlay a wooden disk into that hole. I saw him use it on the frame plinth of a chest which would get a fair amount of stress on it so I assume it would hold really well. Lots of face grain contact.

[Beechwood Chip]

Great idea! If you do a mending plate out of plywood, I would make it triangular to give more support. A piece of plywood in the shape of an L may not lend much in the way of shearing strength.

Good idea. Or an "L" with the inside angle filled in. Could have short arms, so it's mostly triangle with a little extra glue surface down each arm.

[Bombarde16]

I'd second Vic's spline idea, but only because I already have a monster spline cutting jig (ca 36") left over from another project. If you think this is the only time you'll need to do this and don't want to jig up for splines, then some sort of face reinforcement on the back would work fine. Hog off the whole face and put a plate or rout a few channels across the miter and glue in some strips, all would get you the face grain gluing surface you need to hold the miters together.

[PaulMarcel]

I second Charles Neil's method Renaissance mentioned. I used to do a similar thing with a recess in the back, corrugated metal fasteners, and epoxy. While it worked, his method is sooo much faster and simpler that I use it now instead.

[Ben H]

I think the spline, or C Neils method would be fine. Either one would work well.

[Beechwood Chip]

I think the spline, or C Neils method would be fine. Either one would work well.

I agree. The mending plate method was off the top of my head. Neils's method accomplishes almost the same thing, and is easier. The spline is also easy. I think it comes down to whether you want to add the spline as an accent, or have something hidden.

Is there a way to do a spline that's hidden?

[PaulMarcel]

Is there a way to do a spline that's hidden?

Sure, if you use a slot cutter on the router, you could make a stopped slot. His frame is large enough that you could do it, but overall it would just end up being a, what, #20 biscuit slot so just use the biscuit (or use the biscuit joiner and supply cross-grain hardwood instead of the biscuit if you like).

The mitered half-laps are far and away the strongest. More finicky than a spline/biscuit/CN-thingy. Thing with the half-laps is that one side of the corner shows the laps. More finicky work and you could hide it, but then with the size of his frame, the half-laps showing on the top and bottom edge would never be seen.

[dvoigt]

I use splines alot. I like to use them as a design element with contrasting woods. If I don't use a spline, I'll use a biscuit inside. I have also used half lap joints on certain frames that I have made. You can see some frames that I made on my webpage: http://handmadewoodgifts.com/Frames.aspx

[Eli]

Hidden splines can also be done on the table saw. You have to set up a stop that covers part of the blade, then you just run the pieces in to the stop.

Eli

[jgfore]

I use splines alot. I like to use them as a design element with contrasting woods. If I don't use a spline, I'll use a biscuit inside. I have also used half lap joints on certain frames that I have made. You can see some frames that I made on my webpage: http://handmadewoodg...com/Frames.aspx

I have never attempted a Spline before and am not sure that I fill confortable trying it on this project. The spline would be hidden any way. See the link for the frame picture below.

Frame

If you could explain the method of creating a spline I would be greatful though.

Jeff

[jgfore]

I use splines alot. I like to use them as a design element with contrasting woods. If I don't use a spline, I'll use a biscuit inside. I have also used half lap joints on certain frames that I have made. You can see some frames that I made on my webpage: http://handmadewoodg...com/Frames.aspx

Also, do you thing that using two #20 biscuits at each miter will be enough to hold this frame together? I will be useing Titebond III. The frame is 1-5/16" thick to make room for the 3/4" canvas picture, and it is 5" wide. It is going to wieght a lot, but there will be alot of surface area will glue as well. Right now I am thinking about other idea of using a forester bit and inlaying a disc to help, but I really am undecided if it is neccessary.

I see that you have your own business building frames, so any suggestions that you have will be greatly appreciated. I do not what my parents Anniversary gift to crash down one night!

Thanks Jeff

[dvoigt]

I have never attempted a Spline before and am not sure that I fill confortable trying it on this project. The spline would be hidden any way. See the link for the frame picture below.

Frame

If you could explain the method of creating a spline I would be greatful though.

Jeff

To do a spline I made a jig that holds the frame on a 45 degree angle and run it across the blade. I can't get out to get a picture of it right now, but here is an example of one to give you an idea: http://www.woodmagazine.com/woodworking-plans/jigs/spline-jig--miter-joint/

This jig is 10x the complexity of mine, I just cut a 2 pieces of ply wood on a 45 degree angle and glued them to a longer piece of plywood. But that link gives you an idea.

I also cut the grove with a dado blade so they have a flat bottom. If you don't have a blade that will cut a flat bottom you just go over it with a file to smooth them out.

I have also done biscuits. you do have alot of glue area, but it is still all on the end grain. You don't get alot of penetration with a biscuit, 2 biscuits are better then 1, I suppose it will really come down to how much weight is going to be on the joints. If I was concern about strength I would use a spline first, then the forstner bit option, the a biscuit.

Let me know what you decide!

Derek

[blackemmons]

Domino?

[reforzar]

i vote for splines they are quick, strong and can look great.

this was my first attempt at splines using bloodwood with ebony splines.

definitely use a jig with clamps and a square tooth blade (i didn't on this frame )

[Aggie83]

What about using bowtie inlays on the back of the frame corners - adds strength and looks good from the back, invisible from the sides.

[iSawitFirst]

Domino?

BINGO!

Although, a frame with a curved profile could be tricky.

[CraftyLady]

Great ideas above. I personally use either the spline method or the half lap joint. Hope this helps