Painting Your Builds


ResidentEvil

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First off, I'm a hobbyist.  Mostly build stuff for myself, but have done several projects for hire for other people.  Occasionally I am asked to build something for someone and they want it painted as opposed to a natural wood finish.  I've generally ho-hum'd these requests and haven't committed to any so far.

 

I got to thinking a while back and realized this:  I have limited time in the shop as I work a full time in my career profession.  What I love about woodworking is seeing the natural beauty of the wood in the projects I create.  I actually dread spending a lot of time on a project knowing that the end result will be covered with paint.  

 

So I made a decision for my future hobby/business:  I wont take any projects that end with me painting them.  I tell people this upfront, if you want it painted you'll have to find someone else to do it.  I'll build it for you, but you have to paint it.

 

Most people are OK with it, though I did have one neighbor who wanted an entertainment center who got a little upset.  Am I way out of line here?  It would be a totally different story if it was my day job and I had to take jobs like that to make ends meet.  But it isn't and I don't.  

 

I dont think any less of WW'ers who do paint, its just not really how I want to spend my limited time in the shop.  Any thoughts?  What are your preferences?

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I feel like this is going to come off a bit crass, but I'm just simply being blunt.  Please correct me, as Im sure Im misconstruing something here.

 

 

First, this whole post sounds kind of elitist (especially the "I dont think any less of WW'ers who do paint" comment....) A vibe that says "Natural wood is superior to painted wood"; almost as if a painted project is subpar. If anything, a solid color painted project requires MORE quality craftsmanship, because paint is NOT forgiving in any circumstance, where as natural wood is. (i.e. a slight gap between a box joint wont matter on bare wood, but will stick out like a sore thumb on a painted piece). If you're not willing to devote time and effort into learning that part of the trade, so be it, but I feel there needs to be more of a separation than "Its beneath me" honestly.. I dunno, I may just be being sensitive to it. 

 

Second, it also sounds like you're telling the customer what they want, not the other way around. I can't see anyone getting upset from a full on frontal disclosure. "Hey jon, just so you know, I don't do painted furniture".. "oh darn, that sucks. Allright then, if you change your mind let me know".   That or, if they ask why not, you may not be giving a properly tactful response, or perhaps not explaining your side well enough. Again, merely speculation from this post.

 

Finally, if its still in the "hobby" vs "business" realm for you, you do have the luxury of being able to miss out on business. I wouldn't sweat a few misses from time to time. Approach is an artist with a particular focus, not as a hobbyist that excludes things based on convenience. They literally would be the same thing, but its the state of mind behind it that makes the difference I feel.

 

 

FWIW, I do guitar restoration, repair, and building as... lets call it a "hobby turning into a business". I deal primarily with 80's guitars. I know what sells, I know what doesn't. Hot pink, lime green, electric blue... all hot sellers. Black, green, dark red, pale blue... not hot sellers. I stock the paints that sell. I have had people come to me asking to repaint a guitar a certain color, that frankly I have no interest doing. It would be an undue amount of effort for me, a large upfront cost, and time time time. A good way to keep people from getting disgruntled... have someone to refer them to. Yeah you may lose some business, but its a good way to keep people thinking about you. "Hey I went to this guy and he helped me out" kind of thing. 

 

 

Again, all my 2 cents and perspective. No offense intended or implied, just how I read it is all. 

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My thought on this has changed a bit over the years. Initially it was similar to the way you look at it, but as different pieces in my house accumulate I've come to see painted pieces in somewhat a light of admiration; not so much for their stand alone appearance, but what a little color can do when combined with a natural wood finish, or as an accent piece in a room.

I love a well done finish that really makes the wood speak for itself, don't get me wrong. But I also believe a good thing can be over-done and overall become a little boring ;). Personally I wouldn't look down on painted jobs without knowing how / where they will be used; gotta think bigger picture to visualize what a little color can add.

Ultimately though, if it's a hobby and you could care less if you do the job or not; do what you want! Being able to pick and choose is a wonderful position to be in :D !

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My opinion, if you don't like paint, then don't paint! You describe yourself as a hobbyist that sometimes builds for hire. In that case, you have the luxury of picking what projects you are willing to do. I just recommend that you politely communicate that to those who ask you to build for them.

I generally feel that the appearance of my work is a distant second to the beauty of the wood itself. I have to remind myself that not everyone feels the same.

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I hate painting not so much because I love the colour and finish of wood but because I hate the tedious task of painting. I would think you are perfectly reasonable to say "You know what, I'd be more than happy to build that chest of drawers for you. I'm a hobbyist woodworker so I would even enjoy doing it. But I'm not a painter. I don't enjoy it at all and I'm not particularly good at it so you'll have to excuse me if I only take on the woodworking part of the project."

 

I can imagine though that if you tell someone that you will build the project but not paint it because you don't believe in paint, they might take it the wrong way.

 

My personal thoughts on a project being painted is that I don't particularly mind it one way or the other as long as I don't have to do it and as long as it does not deface a good wood. When you're working with a cheap pine or some such, I really see no reason to be purist about the wood that you shouldn't paint it.

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To this day the highest commission I've ever earned was for a painted piece. Sometimes painted pieces can be beautiful and sometimes they can be lucrative as well. There are also many styles of work that are commonly painted. For example is common to see colonial or shaker furniture with milk paint. Some forms of French Country are common with paint as well. You don't have to like these pieces but there are many who do.

 

I had a metal shop teacher years ago who used to say "Go into the corners of your education. Anyone can stand in the middle of the room."

 

What he meant was that of course you can go through high school without taking shop, or music, or theater, or art. Of course you can earn a great living having never welded a thing. Having never written a book, or a poem, or learned another language. But don't look down on these endeavors, and if given an opportunity give them a try. It can only expand your horizons and improve you as a person, a craftsman or a woodworker.

 

I wish I could remember the name of the woodworker who said "I used to look down on plywood as a medium for woodworking, now I see the art that can be created with veneering." ... or something like that. I remember reading it in an issue of Fine Woodworking while sitting on a plane.

 

Anyway, the world of woodworking is so huge it's unlikely that you will ever learn everything there is to learn. I try (I said try) to take the attitude that right now I'm focusing on other aspects of the craft. I try never to take the attitude that this part or that part of the craft is beneath me, or lesser than another part. Seems every time I let a thought like that enter my head I see a piece that makes me a go "Wow, that's beautiful!" and wouldn't you know it, it's just the type or technique I recently belittled.

 

Who knows? Tomorrow you may walk into a antique store, a furniture gallery, or somebody's house and see the most beautiful piece of furniture you've ever seen... and wouldn't you know it.... it's painted.

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I got your back, RE.  I'm not a fan of painting wood either.

 

But the question is: Do you take commissions to earn the money, or do you take commissions purely for the joy of building?  Because if it's the former, I'd take any job that paid well that wasn't a total PITA...and if it's the latter, I wouldn't take any job because I'd be building what I wanted to build and not what other people wanted me to build (which is exactly my stance on commissions).

 

Or maybe it's both, and you wanna earn a little income to roll back into your shop, but you can't stomach the effort unless it's something you'll enjoy building.  If that's the case, I totally get it.

 

I say screw your neighbor.  Who is he to tell you what you will or won't build and what materials you'll use?  What's next?  MDF?  Particle board?  Papier mache?  What if someone asked you to make them a clay pot?  That's not your medium, and neither is paint.  I wouldn't feel weird or elitist explaining that to anyone.  If they don't like it, too bad.

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I feel like this is going to come off a bit crass, but I'm just simply being blunt.  Please correct me, as Im sure Im misconstruing something here.

 

 

First, this whole post sounds kind of elitist (especially the "I dont think any less of WW'ers who do paint" comment....) A vibe that says "Natural wood is superior to painted wood"; almost as if a painted project is subpar. If anything, a solid color painted project requires MORE quality craftsmanship, because paint is NOT forgiving in any circumstance, where as natural wood is. (i.e. a slight gap between a box joint wont matter on bare wood, but will stick out like a sore thumb on a painted piece). If you're not willing to devote time and effort into learning that part of the trade, so be it, but I feel there needs to be more of a separation than "Its beneath me" honestly.. I dunno, I may just be being sensitive to it. 

 

 

That part of my post was actually specifically intended to state that I'm NOT looking down on anyone who does paint their work, or anyone who likes the look of painted woodwork.  I didn't want anyone reading my post thinking that I think that painted wood is a lesser form of WWing, but apparently it didn't come across clearly.  I dont feel that way at all, its just not my preference.  I'd prefer to see the wood in my final projects, but I completely understand that others like the complexity and challenge of applying the perfect coat(s) of paint.

 

Thanks for the suggestion of finding someone to refer them to.  I need to find a couple of contacts who are able to do things that I can't, or just am not interested in doing.

 

I agree with Bob. A good solid color is difficult to execute. If you don't like paint, so be it. But to dismiss it as a lesser form of craftsmanship is narrow-minded, in my opinion.

 

Again, not my intention to sound elitist and I'm pretty sure that I never said nor implied it was a lesser form of craftsmanship.

 

I got your back, RE.  I'm not a fan of painting wood either.

 

But the question is: Do you take commissions to earn the money, or do you take commissions purely for the joy of building?  Because if it's the former, I'd take any job that paid well that wasn't a total PITA...and if it's the latter, I wouldn't take any job because I'd be building what I wanted to build and not what other people wanted me to build (which is exactly my stance on commissions).

 

Or maybe it's both, and you wanna earn a little income to roll back into your shop, but you can't stomach the effort unless it's something you'll enjoy building.  If that's the case, I totally get it.

 

I say screw your neighbor.  Who is he to tell you what you will or won't build and what materials you'll use?  What's next?  MDF?  Particle board?  Papier mache?  What if someone asked you to make them a clay pot?  That's not your medium, and neither is paint.  I wouldn't feel weird or elitist explaining that to anyone.  If they don't like it, too bad.

 

In the end, I do it because its my creative hobby.  If I can build for other people and make some money at it, awesome.  I just was looking back on things I've done for myself, or favors for family/friends, and I distinctly remember not having as much interest in the project or fun building it when I knew the end result was painting.  Much of the fun to me is finding beautiful and unique grain patterns and trying to highlight them in the final project.  And I was reflecting also on the interaction with my neighbor, and thinking about it in that light.

 

I do appreciate all the replies.

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So I made a decision for my future hobby/business:  I wont take any projects that end with me painting them.  I tell people this upfront, if you want it painted you'll have to find someone else to do it.  I'll build it for you, but you have to paint it.

 

Most people are OK with it, though I did have one neighbor who wanted an entertainment center who got a little upset.  Am I way out of line here?  It would be a totally different story if it was my day job and I had to take jobs like that to make ends meet.  But it isn't and I don't.  

 

I dont think any less of WW'ers who do paint, its just not really how I want to spend my limited time in the shop.  Any thoughts?  What are your preferences?

I'm actually a little worse (depending on who you ask) than you, as I won't dye, stain, or paint projects. My stance is wood comes in a rainbow of color, and that you should use a wood that's the color you want the piece to be. I've found a lot of people instantly care less about the color of a project when you start showing them how amazing some species and grain patterns can be.

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Right on. Again, I didn't mean it to be a "tsk tsk, how dare you" response, just simply came off a way that struck me as odd. The nature of forums, is that our true intentions and meanings are sometimes difficult to convey properly.  Glad it was well received, and I hope you find your niche with this incredibly fun hobby :) .

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I'm actually a little worse (depending on who you ask) than you, as I won't dye, stain, or paint projects. My stance is wood comes in a rainbow of color, and that you should use a wood that's the color you want the piece to be. I've found a lot of people instantly care less about the color of a project when you start showing them how amazing some species and grain patterns can be.

I feel pretty similar to that. But my range of colors are limited to what I can afford. But there really are a fair amount of affordable species with ranging colors.
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  • 3 weeks later...

I have been experimenting more with coloring techniques and am enjoying it. Generally speaking, I agree that natural is best and that dyes, stains, toners and glazes often look fake. But there are some situations where those things can enhance the grain and look really good doing so. For me it is a fun and challenging part of the hobby.

So as any finish changes the look what is an acceptable finish?

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The only thing that bothers me is when people try to pass off poplar or birch ad cherry or walnut. There is a lot of deception out there, especially in the commercial furniture and cabinet markets.

 

Today, it's more like some ultra fast growing hybrid you have never heard of being passed off as cherry or walnut.

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first and foremost the finish has to be durable enough for its intended purpose. Everything else is a matter of preference. I like finishes that show and highlight the grain, as most woodworkers. Paint/solid colors have a place and don't bother me. They are "honest" finishes in my opinion. They are what they are and don't try to be something else. The only thing that bothers me is when people try to pass off poplar or birch ad cherry or walnut. There is a lot of deception out there, especially in the commercial furniture and cabinet markets.

So first you talk about beauty of wood and now you are altering and dyeing it to make the grain more pronounced.

 

The other problem is that many words have multiple meanings.  Like with blacksmithing, wrought iron is a look, a process and a material.  It is important to know which one is which.  As cherry is a wood and a aesthetic for color of the wood you need to know what is what.

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 As cherry is a wood and a aesthetic for color of the wood you need to know what is what.

 

The issue being that the general public has no idea what is what. A lot of people will tell you they like cherry, till you show them what real cherry looks like new. They like what real cherry looks like after its aged 75+ years, hence the reason so many people dye, stain, tone etc.

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Cherry is not a color its a wood species. Cherry tone is a color. Cherry finish is a color. Alder made to look like Cherry is Cherry toned Alder. Alder with a Cherry finish is just that Alder with a Cherry finish. 

 

The cabinet industry is very straight forward all KCMA or AWI shops are inspected and would not open themselves to a class action. Most companies have a product lines. Each line is inspected along with the description materials. The industry as a whole is honest but there are a few bad eggs in smaller shops and custom shops that give us a bad name. This is no different than the guys using poor joinery practices like pocket holes and claiming to build a superior product because they abuse the word "custom". Most everything is dictated in the industry right down to the joinery and there is not much room for fudging if you intend to keep your certifications and stay out of court.

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