Mark Gunther Posted November 14, 2014 Report Share Posted November 14, 2014 I'm at the point in between hobbyist and maybe-I-should-try-to-make-money-from-this-ist. The slab + roof (built by previous owners as kennels) doesn't cut it any more for obvious reasons. I've studded it out, put up the siding (t1-11/hardieboard type stuff) and installed my windows. I've built my 60" double doors and am waiting for my hinges to arrive. The shop measures 22' x 13', with a sloping roof (8' front, 7' rear). Problem: getting power and choosing the right cable. I've spent days researching various solutions. I need to run a line from the house main breaker (200A) to the 100A subpanel 75ft away. My father-in-law (FIL for short from here-on) insists 10/2UF buried a few inches below ground will suffice. Now, I'm all for rednecking it but there's no way that would do it in my mind. My own research has led me to 2-2-2-4 Al USE (or mobile home feeder for slang, apparently). This is good for ~100A with both my breakers rated for 75C use. This seems to be the real deal. It doesn't need conduit, it's futureproof in that my shop isn't big enough to ever FIT tools that'll max it, and I can get it for $1/ft - about the same price as the 10/2UF that is surely nowhere near large enough. Downside to this aluminum cable - it's thick, and getting it up my interior wall to my main breaker is going to be difficult/impossible, whereas FIL wants to join the 10/2 to an unused line under the house that leads to a 220V outlet for an electric stove. However, I called a local electrician and he says he's used the aluminum cable to good effect before. This vague blessing gives me a lot of comfort as I don't have the cash to throw at a professional to do it all for me. Tied in to this problem is, unless I just go ahead with the aluminum wire, figuring out what load I need to carry in the first place. The shop is small and I'm not expecting it to be suitable long term if my furniture business does successfully take off. However, I do/will have the basics - mitre saw, table saw, planer, small dust collection system, air compressor, heat and cool window AC unit, and I'd like to at least be able to use it for a few years. I'm trying to think about the most tools that will ever be on at once, and this is what I'm coming up, my guess on amperage in brackets: with table saw (15), dust collection (10), lights (<4), heat/air (12) = 41. Knowing I need to allow for more, both in terms of keeping it below 80% capacity and also future-proofing wise, do you think I 60A is a good number to keep in mind when deciding on cable? Thanks all for your help Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..Kev Posted November 14, 2014 Report Share Posted November 14, 2014 My first suggestion would be checking with the county you live in and see what code is. From there, I would seriously suggest pulling a permit and follow code for the install. In the end, if it burns down because of the wiring, your homeowner's insurance isn't going to cover it if it wasn't permitted and installed to code.. I would also suggest a 100 amp service. Keep the light separate from everything else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted November 14, 2014 Report Share Posted November 14, 2014 ==>My own research has led me to 2-2-2-4 Al USE (or mobile home feeder for slang, apparently). This is good for ~100A with both my breakers rated for 75C use. ==>This seems to be the real deal. It doesn't need conduit TIODS has the right idea --- it doesn't matter if the cable requires conduit or not... What matters is what your municipality requires – and more importantly, what the municipality’s inspector requires… Around my neck of the woods, it's a 40"+ deep trench, gravel to 36", conduit, gravel, fill, done... BTW: power and telecom must be in separate conduit runs -- you want a TV and/or phone in you shop, run a second conduit... Assuming you want insurance, then you need an inspector's ticket. To get the inspectors ticket, you need a permit and licensed electrician... Some municipalities allow homeowners to act as their own electricians -- some don't. Acting as your own electrician can be good or bad depending on your own competence and the inspector... Some inspectors are fine with DIY electrics as long as it's all within code... Some will break your b*lls. And BTW, no matter how often you read the NEC, an inspector can always find something to make your life difficult... Our guy required all stationary power tools to be on twistlock outlets up to 30a and hard-wired disconnect from 30a up -- now this isn't code (code is 40a/60a depending), but it's what he wanted -- it was a $400+ change to the plan, but it is what it is -- what are your going to say, no? He also required the cyclone to be on a dedicated branch -- which is actually a correct reading of NEC (but somewhat debatable for a hobby shop), but another change... My suggestion is hire a pro to get the sub set, bonded and inspected. From there, you can probably tackle the branches... BTW: our local inspector requires a second pull for a light and convenience outlet at the sub. Why, so you can de-energize the sub, but still have electric and light to work on the sub… BTW, some municipalities really frown on AL feeders. There are a bunch of other factors --- which is why hiring a pro can pay for itself… You really don't want to get to the end of the job and the inspector fails you... And to second TIODS - you really don't want a fire and not have inspected electrics -- you really really don't want to have that conversation with the insurance adjuster... PS: you really don't want a fire back at the main panel if you go with an AL feeder -- especially if the town doesn't like AL feeders (because of fires at the main panel) -- that would be a very uncomfortable conversation... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raefco Posted November 14, 2014 Report Share Posted November 14, 2014 It's hard to say what you have to do not knowing where your at, here in Indiana you can self perform any craft for your personal use but a permit is required and inspection must be performed. The power company may unhook you at the poll if you hook up another building with out the proper inspections. I recently built a house, for the electrical, I called the local IBEW union hall and had them recommend a guy. I hired him by the hour and it was the best thing ever, he kept me honest and also knew the inspector, I got an awesome job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Gunther Posted November 14, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 14, 2014 I'm in Haywood County, Tennessee. I called the local building inspector but he says he doesn't deal with electrical work. I'll do some googling to find out who exactly does do this. Another option is have an additional service line put in as there is a utility pole a whole 20ft from the shop. The problem with that is that I think they will refuse to do it as our house already has two separate services (one for the main house, one for a rented upstairs apartment). 2 is frowned upon, 3 is laughable, probably.. Still, I'll get some quotes from an electrician and see if we can work together to meet code in as affordable way as possible. If local code does allow me to do my own work perhaps he can just run the feeder for me and I'll do the inside. Thanks for the help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted November 14, 2014 Report Share Posted November 14, 2014 ==>I called the local building inspector but he says he doesn't deal with electrical work They usually don't... Call the town hall and ask for the building dept. They can tell you who does the inspections and on what schedules. In our town, electric is every other Tuesday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..Kev Posted November 14, 2014 Report Share Posted November 14, 2014 Where I live, the work out of the L&I office. Wherever you get your building permits from should be able to direct you where to get your electrical permit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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