Gretchin's Cradle

[Vic]

I wanted to go ahead and post this now. What I would like in addition to design critique are any processing critiques. The following is a response to friend who had seen it and also wanted to know how I like the Veritas router plane. If there are other processes I did that need more explanation, please ask. I want to take full advantage of this room to gain as much knowledge as possible with each build. So please look critically.

Thanks Vic,

The Project: http://www.flickr.com/photos/30350434@N07/sets/72157625182276454/

I used the Veritas router plane for two specific operations. You see when I used it for the dados on the cradle bottom. I also used it on the inside curves of the legs to house the gussets. I would've used a power router if I felt as confident of the set up, but on both these operations, it was easier (for me) to do it by hand. On the head and foot boards, I would've had to build a jig. As I am building in relative dimension through out the piece, I didn't take the bottom of the cradle to a specific dimension, but rather until it was clean and in the ball park of thickness I wanted.

On the legs, I don't know of a better way. A jig for it a bit beyond me. I'm sure someone could figure it out, but I didn't see it. Also considering the amount I had to fuss to get the joint tight, I would've still had to use it.

Also, in answer to whether I like it? YES..love it. It very precise. You have to do a good job of cutting in the layout lines, but they are fairly easy to follow. You also have to switch direction from time to time to account for grain change.

I got the panels cut today and will finish the dry fit of trestle ends tomorrow. If I'm lucky and time goes as I plan, I should be able to figure out the trestle tomorrow, too.

This has been an extremely fun project. My friend Joe and his wife Gretchin are expecting in about 6 weeks. The pressure is on, but I think I'm gonna be OK. I have really enjoyed designing on the fly!! It's a rush when I get a part of the design together or when one thing sends me in a different direction. The project was originally to be completely out of the Birch I'd bought. The boards were in the rough and when I milled them, I realized I would have to sacrifice efficiency of the boards to get the most out of the grain. The sides are a really beautiful piece of crotch wood and the head and foot boards from a stunning piece of flame Birch. At that point I started thinking about my options. That's when I brought in the Walnut. It was just sitting in the shop waiting for a purpose anyway. The straight grain in the Walnut is what pushed me into trying a bentwood lamination. I did a fairly decent job for my first glue up.

I'm looking forward to playing with my ideas for the stretcher.

[Jim DaddyO]

Comming along beautifully Vic. I can't wait to see it done, so get to work...lol.

I am really enjoying how the lines and curves flow.

[Onboard]

Vic, that’s a standout piece of work. I have to believe that Gretchin will be greatly pleased with it. I am curious about one thing though. Since a baby will be in this cradle part time over X number of months, what finish have you decided on?

[Vic]

Vic, that’s a standout piece of work. I have to believe that Gretchin will be greatly pleased with it. I am curious about one thing though. Since a baby will be in this cradle part time over X number of months, what finish have you decided on?

Nabil Abdo from the Live/Chat page suggested these guys. I called them and they are very helpful. So, I chose the polymerized medium luster tung oil. Exposing a baby to anything nasty was a concern of mine, also. I should have the finish on by next weekend and deliver to Ellensburg, WA the following week. Then another month give or take before the baby is in the cradle. Since it is a natural product it should be quite safe and should have plenty of time to fully cure.

[Dyami Plotke]

Vic,

Looks like a beautiful cradle taking shape.

[Vic]

Dyami, thank you. Anything you can think of that I might've done differently on design or process? A couple pics from today's progress.

[timmahoney34]

I wouldn't change a thing. I like the design. It will be so nice that you'll want it bigger so the baby will stay in it longer. Or............just keep having more kids.

[Saddlestrum]

I wouldn't change a thing. I like the design. It will be so nice that you'll want it bigger so the baby will stay in it longer. Or............just keep having more kids.

Had to laugh here when I read Tim's comment. I couldn't agree more. Now if I made it it would be considered a new form of birth control 'cause my work is soooo ugly and no one would have anymore kids lest they have to be in it!!

[Vic]

you'll want it bigger so the baby will stay in it longer. Or............just keep having more kids.

Uh...no..not me, Tim. My friends are having a baby. None in my future. LOL There'd be some 'splainin' to do!

[holznabie]

hy vic !

tolle arbeit .auch das design ist ganz toll.sicher viel arbeit.weiter so

[Vic]

hy vic !

tolle arbeit .auch das design ist ganz toll.sicher viel arbeit.weiter so

Vielen Dank Holznabie, ja das ist schon viel Arbeit, aber ich habe auch viel Spass und habe eine Menge dabei gelernt.

[Saddlestrum]

Hey Vic, thanks for the rundown on the Veritas router plane. Your comments were helpful and likely there's one in my future not too far away. I was wondering how you go about sharpening the blade? Apparently there is a sharpening guide that comes with it but no pictures of the sharpening jig are on the Lee Valley website....so a dummy like me has to ask.

Thanks in advance.

[Vic]

Hey Vic, thanks for the rundown on the Veritas router plane. Your comments were helpful and likely there's one in my future not too far away. I was wondering how you go about sharpening the blade? Apparently there is a sharpening guide that comes with it but no pictures of the sharpening jig are on the Lee Valley website....so a dummy like me has to ask.

Thanks in advance.

Since it came sharp in the box, I have only had to do one tune up during this build. I'll actually have to look into that, too. I'll let you know, as I have a lot of sharpening to do when I finish this.

[PaulMarcel]

The 1/4" blade is shaped with the rod so you lap the back holding the whole thing. To do the bevel, you have to put your stone by the edge of the bench so you can hone the bevel with the rod sticking down on the side. Not hard, but 'different'.

The 1/2" dual bevel blade and the 1/2" flat blade are screwed into their rod. The plane comes with an aluminum handle where you can place the blade to be worked on the handle for easier handling. Personally, I leave it on its rod as sharpening off the edge like you do isn't difficult and the aluminum rod lets the blade more easily pivot, which is annoying.

I'm sure there are instructions on the LV site: look up the plane and look in the list of items to buy for an 'instr' link to view the instructions.

[Timberwerks]

I really like the design and the craftsmanship and details are fantastic it really is a beautiful piece. Now, on Twitter you asked that I be critical. The only thing I would have done differently is use wood with a bit less character. I had to search deep to find anything to be critical about, it truly is beautiful and work to be proud of. Truth be told I think the wood is stunning. I just can't find a thing to really be critical about but just something I would change.

[Vic]

I really like the design and the craftsmanship and details are fantastic it really is a beautiful piece. Now, on Twitter you asked that I be critical. The only thing I would have done differently is use wood with a bit less character. I had to search deep to find anything to be critical about, it truly is beautiful and work to be proud of. Truth be told I think the wood is stunning. I just can't find a thing to really be critical about but just something I would change.

Dale, thanks for doing this. I was specifically choosing a figured wood for the cradle itself and because of where the figure landed in the wood and wanting to let that dictate the cuts, I ended up bringing in another species (Walnut, all straight grained) because I was no longer going to have enough of the Birch to complete the project. Why would you have used a wood with less character? As I said, I have no formal training in either design, nor woodworking. This is my first project. Since it's all I know, I am just going with what seems to look good to me. But, as I stated, I really want feedback from professionals (as well as good hobbyists) to help make my learning curve a little more steep. At some point I'd like to be making pieces that have a good street value.

[Vic]

Today's progress. I got the panels fit and the rocker caps complete. The caps took a lot of hand work after they were drilled out on the drill press. The curve for the top is the same as the curve on the bottom.

[Timberwerks]

To my eye the grain of crotch area wood is strong & masculine. When I think of a cradle I think of it's wood to be more delicate and subtle, perhaps maple with just a hint of curl or birds eye for example. Your design and craftsmanship is fantastic and I do like how you worked with the grain, I'd just like to see the cradle in a more delicate subtle grained wood.

[PaulMarcel]

Love the look of the project, Vic!

The bent laminations came out very nicely. The plate between them besides being necessary looks good. I like the look as is, but you might have scrolled the top and bottom. Top could be arced, bottom, too, to make a flow from the curve of the legs. But you'd have to draw that out cuz it might be too curvy. I like it the way it is now. Hey, if they have a boy, are you gonna put a pediment here? j/k

I'm not sure what Dale is referring to with the figured wood; I love the look of it. Actually, I really like how you placed the crazy grain near the top of the sleigh; to me it looks like snow whipping off the sleigh. Picture I'm referring to is this one.

In another thread I suggested something before seeing this thread that you changed the design to have a flat bottom. I like it like this; more practical than a rounded bottom. A possible change would be to put a soft curve in the bottom of the runners so the cradle could be put on the floor and rocked.

One picture has me confused and it's likely cuz I don't follow the build on the live page. This one. The comment says it is the start of a fox wedged tenon. For that rocking arm that was inserted for the picture, it looks like it is going all the way through the cradle front/back. Is that correct? A fox wedged tenon is hidden... like the stealthy fox. If it is hidden, my suggestion would be to pierce it through so the wedges and everything show on the inside. Also hard to tell from the photo, but is the mortise widened where the wedges go or is the tenon reduced so it expands with the wedges? Both work, but widening the mortise adds considerable strength. (hmm on closer inspection, it looks like chisel marks near the mortise so the mortise is widened... perfect!)

I like the G&G-ish finger joints. I like your variant of chamfering the fingers. I think it would look better, though, pillowed round because everything else is curvy. I'm all for juxtaposing hard angles with flowing lines, but the ends of the fingers are too small in relation to the rest to make that contrast well. Just an opinion.

I don't know what you are planning on doing with the legs. They look great in the final pictures. Now that you like hand shaping so much, it might be tempting to take a spokeshave the legs to taper them nicely or give a hand-shaped look to the edges, but resist! If you shape past a laminate glue line, it can become crazy obvious. Rounding the edges or whatever is fine as long as you don't cross a laminate glue line.

You actually got me to visit the live page yesterday... saw you shaping what I think is the rocking mechanism for cradle; I'm sure this project will get you hooked on hand shaping.

Looking forward to the rest (and hoping junior doesn't arrive 4 weeks early )

P.S., don't let Lance talk you into painting this green!!

[PaulMarcel]

To my eye the grain is strong & masculine. When I think of a cradle I think of it's wood to be more delicate and subtle, perhaps maple with a slight bit of curl or birds eye for example. Your design and craftsmanship is fantastic and I do like how you worked with the grain, I'd just like to see the cradle in a more delicate subtle grained wood.

Rats, I was eating dinner typing my response when you replied. Now I get what you mean by the grain (q.v. my remark that I didn't know what you meant). Well, 50/50... the masculine lines might be appropriate

[Vic]

To my eye the grain is strong & masculine. When I think of a cradle I think of it's wood to be more delicate and subtle, perhaps maple with a slight bit of curl or birds eye for example. Your design and craftsmanship is fantastic and I do like how you worked with the grain, I'd just like to see the cradle in a more delicate subtle grained wood.

Thanks for explaining that, Dale. That really DOES make sense. In the future I will think more about the overall tenor (masculine, feminine, dark, light, ying, yang). I think you're right that that must be addressed. I'm still not sure I feel the same about the grain being masculine or feminine. The flame, to me, is more feminine, I think. But, maybe that's cause I'm married to Sylvia! ;o)

[Vic]

Love the look of the project, Vic!

The bent laminations came out very nicely. The plate between them besides being necessary looks good. I like the look as is, but you might have scrolled the top and bottom. Top could be arced, bottom, too, to make a flow from the curve of the legs. But you'd have to draw that out cuz it might be too curvy. I like it the way it is now. Hey, if they have a boy, are you gonna put a pediment here? j/k

I'm not sure what Dale is referring to with the figured wood; I love the look of it. Actually, I really like how you placed the crazy grain near the top of the sleigh; to me it looks like snow whipping off the sleigh. Picture I'm referring to is this one.

In another thread I suggested something before seeing this thread that you changed the design to have a flat bottom. I like it like this; more practical than a rounded bottom. A possible change would be to put a soft curve in the bottom of the runners so the cradle could be put on the floor and rocked.

One picture has me confused and it's likely cuz I don't follow the build on the live page. This one. The comment says it is the start of a fox wedged tenon. For that rocking arm that was inserted for the picture, it looks like it is going all the way through the cradle front/back. Is that correct? A fox wedged tenon is hidden... like the stealthy fox. If it is hidden, my suggestion would be to pierce it through so the wedges and everything show on the inside. Also hard to tell from the photo, but is the mortise widened where the wedges go or is the tenon reduced so it expands with the wedges? Both work, but widening the mortise adds considerable strength. (hmm on closer inspection, it looks like chisel marks near the mortise so the mortise is widened... perfect!)

I like the G&G-ish finger joints. I like your variant of chamfering the fingers. I think it would look better, though, pillowed round because everything else is curvy. I'm all for juxtaposing hard angles with flowing lines, but the ends of the fingers are too small in relation to the rest to make that contrast well. Just an opinion.

I don't know what you are planning on doing with the legs. They look great in the final pictures. Now that you like hand shaping so much, it might be tempting to take a spokeshave the legs to taper them nicely or give a hand-shaped look to the edges, but resist! If you shape past a laminate glue line, it can become crazy obvious. Rounding the edges or whatever is fine as long as you don't cross a laminate glue line.

You actually got me to visit the live page yesterday... saw you shaping what I think is the rocking mechanism for cradle; I'm sure this project will get you hooked on hand shaping.

Looking forward to the rest (and hoping junior doesn't arrive 4 weeks early )

P.S., don't let Lance talk you into painting this green!!

Thanks for coming back and doing a critique! I'm not sure what you mean by scrolled in the first paragraph. Could you elaborate? The top IS arced with the same arc as the bottom of the gusset. In regard to the cradle being able to be rocked, the cradle does rock side to side, but yea, front to back would've been different and cool. As far as the "fox wedged tenon", I didn't know it was only in reference to a hidden wedge tenon. This is a through tenon and will be wedged with Black Walnut. My thoughts on the chamfered edges is that is balances all the curves on the piece. Further chamfering will be done on the edges of the curved legs(not to get into the glue lines). The top of the rocker cap and the top of the gussets will also be chamfered, to make the step down easier on the eye.

Thanks again, Paul!!

[PaulMarcel]

The flame, to me, is more feminine, I think. But, maybe that's cause I'm married to Sylvia! ;o)

TMI!

[Vic]

One question I have is, I've been planning on doing Black Walnut pegs, squared and inserted in a diamond configuration - one on each box joint, except the largest middle box joint on the headboard, for which I planned two.

I would like your thoughts on that. Should I? Is it overdone or unnecessary? Part of the reason I wanted to do it is to tie the cradle more soundly to the trestle. It's also why I used a Birch panel in the trestle.

[PaulMarcel]

Hmm, I don't think I'd like the look of all those pegs. The flow of the sleigh is what's nice. the slanted sides compliment it. Black/white contrast would complement it (note the spelling ) It would be too much in my opinion.

I was recently thinking about a project I'd like to build and thought of pegs. What I decided for that project is to put in square end-grain pegs pillowed and burnished to stop them from absorbing so much finish that they are much darker. The end-grain will be different looking than the face, will be slightly darker in finishing and the pillow gives a tactile element. That might work for you, too. Again, for my project, I thought to pillow them, but for yours, your idea of chamfering them into mini-pyramids would compliment the shape of the fingers.

For the scroll question, it's a curvy embellishment. Scroll saw gets its name from them. The idea was to make the walnut at the bottom of the gusset (i think that's what you called it; part between the legs... oh that sounded bad) well, to take that walnut and make an upward curve that flows with the curve of the legs. The birch part above it would need to be curved equally if you wanted them joined to look like one board or you could match the curve and leave a small 1/2" gap to look like a piercing. It was just an idea; what you have is good.