Vyrolan Posted November 30, 2014 Report Share Posted November 30, 2014 So electric sucks in my garage...only a single 20-amp for everything except lights (so garage openers and garage fridge/freezer are on it beyond my tools). I'm probably close to maxing it already with cheap crappy tools. I was getting a quote to have a sub panel run there, and the guy mentioned they would just do a surface mount panel and surface mount conduit for everything coming off of it. Sounds ok I guess and certainly makes it easier for me to do some of the work, but I'm afraid it will be ugly as hell (which will effect wife approval). Is that standard for garages if not done at construction? He acted like dealing with the external walls would be prohibitive to doing it in the walls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Cancelleri Posted November 30, 2014 Report Share Posted November 30, 2014 I cut a strip in the drywall about 12" tall and drilled the studs and ran the wires in the walls, put nail plates on the studs and put the sheet rock back up. I cut the sheetrock with an oscillating multi tool like the Fein or Dremel multimaster. Surface mount will require you put the Romex inside of conduit and that you clamp the conduit to the walls with brackets. My dad recommended I run conduit and do surface mount, however I didn't want to add a few hundred to the cost of the materials when I could put everything in the walls and it be cleaner with nothing sticking off the walls. Also, check local code and make sure that you can put it in your garage like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beechwood Chip Posted November 30, 2014 Report Share Posted November 30, 2014 My garage has all surface mount electrical. The side walls are concrete block, and back wall is brick, so the alternatives would have been a lot of work. As far as being ugly, my garage is a utility space, not a living space. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vyrolan Posted November 30, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2014 Surface mount will require you put the Romex inside of conduit and that you clamp the conduit to the walls with brackets. This is Chicagoland...it HAS to be in conduit even inside the walls...that's why it sucks so much to do vs surface mount. Chip, that's a good point that it's utility space. I can also take all the conduit to the ceiling (fastest shortest path anyway) so it's not like you're staring at it all the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tcarswell Posted November 30, 2014 Report Share Posted November 30, 2014 Mines all surface mount I did it myself. I would say absolutely use conduit though emt or the like it will be safer and cleaner . (The electrician probably suggested this ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveT Posted November 30, 2014 Report Share Posted November 30, 2014 What is the theory behind everything having to be in conduit, purely for protection? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardA Posted November 30, 2014 Report Share Posted November 30, 2014 What is the theory behind everything having to be in conduit, purely for protection? Union's! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhighlander Posted November 30, 2014 Report Share Posted November 30, 2014 They aren't using solid conductor Romex inside conduit, are they? That suff is way to stiff to pull around bends unless the conduit is 3 or 4 times bigger that you would need for stranded wire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Cancelleri Posted November 30, 2014 Report Share Posted November 30, 2014 This is Chicagoland...it HAS to be in conduit even inside the walls...that's why it sucks so much to do vs surface mount. Chip, that's a good point that it's utility space. I can also take all the conduit to the ceiling (fastest shortest path anyway) so it's not like you're staring at it all the time. Wow that sounds like a major pita Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raefco Posted November 30, 2014 Report Share Posted November 30, 2014 What is the theory behind everything having to be in conduit, purely for protection? Fire, electrical is the number one cause, almost anything commercial, that is not tempary,is in conduit unless it's low voltage. Conduit In the walls on residential is over kill but a fire did nearly wipe chicago off the map. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vyrolan Posted November 30, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2014 They aren't using solid conductor Romex inside conduit, are they? That suff is way to stiff to pull around bends unless the conduit is 3 or 4 times bigger that you would need for stranded wire. I haven't opened anything in this house, but my condo downtown was almost exclusively solid and all conduit. The word romex is basically never spoken here. I've heard stories of people moving to the area and blown away that HD/Lowes don't even carry the stuff because there's nowhere it can be used. For conduit size, I don't know much about it...but the electrician wanted 3/4 conduit for a 60-amp panel (and said it would be a tight fit) or 1-1/4 for an 80-amp. Is that crazy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raefco Posted November 30, 2014 Report Share Posted November 30, 2014 They aren't using solid conductor Romex inside conduit, are they? That suff is way to stiff to pull around bends unless the conduit is 3 or 4 times bigger that you would need for stranded wire. You can run solid core wire through conduit but you cannot run Romex or its equivalent inside the conduit, I have 12 outlets in my basement that are wired in with 3/4 inch PVC conduit ran exposed, but only what was mounted on the wall had to be in conduit all the wires running across the floor joists, the basement ceiling, is Romax stapled to the bottom of the joist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beechwood Chip Posted November 30, 2014 Report Share Posted November 30, 2014 What about prewired flex conduit (armored cable)? Around here they use that a lot for quick surface mount applications, For DIY projects I don't like to mess with conduit so I use this stuff. My electricians do, too. Just remember to use the plastic grommets at the ends to protect the wires from the sharp edge of the conduit. Ask me how I know this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..Kev Posted November 30, 2014 Report Share Posted November 30, 2014 What is the theory behind everything having to be in conduit, purely for protection? To protect the wire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Cancelleri Posted November 30, 2014 Report Share Posted November 30, 2014 What about prewired flex conduit (armored cable)? Around here they use that a lot for quick surface mount applications, For DIY projects I don't like to mess with conduit so I use this stuff. My electricians do, too. Just remember to use the plastic grommets at the ends to protect the wires from the sharp edge of the conduit. Ask me how I know this. Are you referring to BX cable? 2 Wire on a metal tight spiraled loom and the ground is the actual flexible conduit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpt life Posted November 30, 2014 Report Share Posted November 30, 2014 Yes and no. Modern AC (both BX and some MC) includes a ground wire. You still may be able to source some without, but I have only removed that and never saw it arrive on a job. This in a fairly lax state compared with Chicago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Cancelleri Posted November 30, 2014 Report Share Posted November 30, 2014 Yes and no. Modern AC (both BX and some MC) includes a ground wire. You still may be able to source some without, but I have only removed that and never saw it arrive on a job. This in a fairly lax state compared with Chicago. They don't sell bx here in Virginia, everything is romex. I haven't seen bx in a long time when I lived in New York City and helped my dad run some wires 20 years ago Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpt life Posted November 30, 2014 Report Share Posted November 30, 2014 It is the commercial standard in many applications here. Shop hung or suspended ceiling fluorescents are exclusively wired this way. I think there was a lag in trusting the stuff in some regions of the country. A true electrician will know better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beechwood Chip Posted November 30, 2014 Report Share Posted November 30, 2014 Are you referring to BX cable? 2 Wire on a metal tight spiraled loom and the ground is the actual flexible conduit. BX, but it has a ground wire, and you can get it with 2 or 3 conductors, plus ground. In Philly, you can get BX in most of the configurations that you can get Romex. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vyrolan Posted November 30, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2014 We never have the ground wire...at least I never saw one in my condo downtown and I was into almost everything there. The conduit is the ground. It's annoying learning about doing electrical when everything online assumes romex and assumes the romex colors for things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vyrolan Posted November 30, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2014 I am going to have a 100amp sub added to my garage and am going to surface mount all the pipe and boxes. How will you deal with stuff that's not against the wall like a table saw? I assume the conduit along the floor is not an option for the same reason as no extension cords stretched along the floor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodger. Posted November 30, 2014 Report Share Posted November 30, 2014 This is my third shop, and all have been wired on their surface with EMT and romex (grounded) on the inside. All electrical is required to be (and should be) inspected by ESA (electrical safety authority) here in Canada. I always went with exposed EMT for a variety of reasons. First, if your walls are up (retrofit shop) you don't need to "unbuild" anything or mess around with getting to the interior of the walls. Secondly, EMT and exposed materials are relatively cheap and easy to install DIY style (get it inspected however). A 10' section of EMT tubing suitable for a few runs is about 2 dollars. No bending of EMT is required, as elbows and sweeps are premade now. Thirdly, you can alter your wiring very easily. You need to add an outlet? no problem! open up your handy box and wire up a new one. Need to move an outlet to another location? No problem - open up and rewire. EMT and exposed wiring can look very neat and pleasing, as long as you don't have a load of different circuits. Running 20 amp split circuits using 12/3 will save wire, time, and money. The EMT in my shop was measured carefully to be evenly spaced, and runs were carefully chosen for location so as not to interfere with function of the wall space (future shelving, etc) and for the least visual impact. Ill snap a pic next time im out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhighlander Posted December 1, 2014 Report Share Posted December 1, 2014 I haven't opened anything in this house, but my condo downtown was almost exclusively solid and all conduit. The word romex is basically never spoken here. I've heard stories of people moving to the area and blown away that HD/Lowes don't even carry the stuff because there's nowhere it can be used. For conduit size, I don't know much about it...but the electrician wanted 3/4 conduit for a 60-amp panel (and said it would be a tight fit) or 1-1/4 for an 80-amp. Is that crazy? I'm guessing they take extreme measures to avoid 90* bends when using solid wire in conduits, especially for the sizes you stated. Solid copper AWG 12 is pretty stiff. AWG tables call for #2 at 80 amps, that stuff is 1/4" diameter! Even using sweep 90's, that would be a really tough pull with solid wire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponderingturtle Posted December 1, 2014 Report Share Posted December 1, 2014 I'm guessing they take extreme measures to avoid 90* bends when using solid wire in conduits, especially for the sizes you stated. Solid copper AWG 12 is pretty stiff. AWG tables call for #2 at 80 amps, that stuff is 1/4" diameter! Even using sweep 90's, that would be a really tough pull with solid wire. They don't make that in solid wire though. Or rather solid forms of that gauge are called bus bars. It is stranded wire at that guage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhighlander Posted December 2, 2014 Report Share Posted December 2, 2014 They don't make that in solid wire though. Or rather solid forms of that gauge are called bus bars. It is stranded wire at that guage. Hhmmmm....been working as an automation / drives engineer in the steel industry for the past 23 years, never heard of anything as small as AWG #2 referred to as a "bus bar". But then, we wouldn't try to use solid #2 "wire" for anything, either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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