Based on Festool help thread ... More cool aide vs all friendly talk.

[bushwacked]

You can turn off the sensor and operate it without collection. Honestly I did something yesterday that made me fee like a total noob. I hooked up my ETS 150/3 to power and put on the paper. Connected my hose to the vacuum and forgot to hook it to the sander. I was sanding for about 3 minutes before I realized how much of a dumbass I was.

Haha did that today while I was sanding. Started thinking damn there is some dust and looked down and wasn't connected to the hose. Whoopsy.

Oh well that's good you turn the sensor off that will be a big help. I just worry with so much technology on the sander it will give it more opportunity to break.

[Tom Cancelleri]

Haha did that today while I was sanding. Started thinking damn there is some dust and looked down and wasn't connected to the hose. Whoopsy.

Oh well that's good you turn the sensor off that will be a big help. I just worry with so much technology on the sander it will give it more opportunity to break.

 

I'd be more afraid of technology like the saw stop failing, or a variable speed controller or thermostat failing and causing fire. Festool is built well and has great support. I wouldn't be too worried.

[bushwacked]

I'd be more afraid of technology like the saw stop failing, or a variable speed controller or thermostat failing and causing fire. Festool is built well and has great support. I wouldn't be too worried.

Oooh Ya saw stop technology failing would suuuuuck!!

[wtnhighlander]

Does sawstop have some sort of test mode where you can touch the unpowered blade and get a verification light or something to show the sensor functions?

[Vyrolan]

Does sawstop have some sort of test mode where you can touch the unpowered blade and get a verification light or something to show the sensor functions?

Yes. Anytime you use the bypass mode to turn off the safety feature it will still show you if it would have fired. This allows you to test greener wood or other materials.

[bushwacked]

Yes. Anytime you use the bypass mode to turn off the safety feature it will still show you if it would have fired. This allows you to test greener wood or other materials.

Well that's a nice feature. How often would one want to test this out? If not using greener wood.

[Vyrolan]

Well that's a nice feature. How often would one want to test this out? If not using greener wood.

 

If you're cutting metal obviously...but also pressure-treated wood can set it off I've heard.   It can also be a good idea if you're using jigs with any metal like aluminum tracks for hold downs or whatever...  Obviously you shouldn't be sending metal from your jigs into your blade on purpose, but it can be preferable to have a nicked jig than a post-brake blade.    The converse of that is some guys have been happy that the SawStop saved their expensive Incra miter gauge at the expense of a brake cartridge. =p

[dwacker]

Maybe I missed it but what's the point of it only working when hooked up to dust extraction?

 

Your going to see more and more of this. Keeping the air clean in the workplace is getting more and more difficult due to tougher regulation. Its really no different than spray booths and sanding lines with solenoid valves that wont supply air unless the extraction source is running. 

[bgreenb]

I think brush motor sanders are on their way out and will be a thing of the past. Mirka and 3M are getting closer to their air sander counterparts than any of the others. Once the popularity rises the prices should fall.

 

Sorry for the partial thread hijack, but can someone explain to me what makes air sanders so much better than electrical sanders?  Sorry if that's a stupid question, but I always see that written here and never really understood why it was the case.  

[wdwerker]

Air sanders are powerful , small and lightweight. If you have a big enough air compressor to keep up with the demand. Some of them gobble up the CFM.

[dwacker]

Sorry for the partial thread hijack, but can someone explain to me what makes air sanders so much better than electrical sanders?  Sorry if that's a stupid question, but I always see that written here and never really understood why it was the case.  

 

Light weight, quieter, cost less, last longer, better finish, better dust collection (good ones). On the other hand unless your running a rotary compressor your going to eat up compressors with any real use. For commercial use they are great.

[williaty]

I have a lot of Festools at this point. I'm certainly not religiously sticking to the brand, by any means, but they have a style of work that fits me well.

 

Kapex: Weight. That never gets mentioned enough but it's one of the most important things about that saw to me. It weighs SIGNIFICANTLY less than any of its equal-quality competitors. I have a small shop and the saw has to get moved out of the way from time to time. Sometimes I take it upstairs to lay flooring, sometimes it goes out to the deck to making railing. The straight up truth is that it was a no-contest choice because I can move the Kapex but I'm not physically capable of moving most high-quality SCMSs.

 

Track Saw: Honestly, I had a hard time buying it. It was a lot of money. Now, having owned one, I'd never be willing to go without. If it came down to the choice of having a track saw or having a table saw, I'd get the track saw. It's just too much easier and safer to use to do things like break down sheet goods than using a table saw. Having tried out some of the competition, I do think that the Festool saws are a little better than the alternatives, but not night-and-day.

 

Sander: Straight up, it was about the dust collection. I've never had any other sander do as well at dust collection (when the ETS 150/5 is paired with the CT vac). All sanders sand successfully these days so the only real difference is the dust collection.

 

For me, there rest of the Festools I have are worth the money because of system integration. With one Festool, you get 1x the work done. With 2 Festools, you get 2x the work done. At 3 Festools, you're getting about 5x the work done and it only gets better from there. Once you have a system of their tools, rails, and accessory bits, you'll find out that a lot of things get easier. Things like the LR32 system, being able to use the rails with the jig saws and router, leveraging the MFT with the rails and grid system to be able to do crazy accurate angled things, etc.

 

No one else in the market seems to offer a complete line of tools that are all consciously designed to work together in efficient ways. So at this point, if I've got the choice of buying a top-shelf brand X vs the Festool equivalent for 5-10% more, I'll usually buy the Festool because there's always an advantage to having the new tool play with all the others.

[HausWerks]

I have a 22'x 22'2 car detached garage for my shop. Its my job so its not a hobby for me. Before i spent a penny on festool i studied the tools, the accessories that expanded the functionality of the tools , and what techniques people were using to get the most out of these tools.

before i opened my shop i was a union millworker working in the chicago loop.

in and out of highrises with my tools. I built a couple tool boxes and they were poor designs or too heavy and not organized enough. I realized pretty quickly that the systainers would be the best solution for my problem. I used a conversion dolly and made a work top to work off of and clamp stuff to and loaded it up with systainers. All i needed as a union installer was my hand tools. And i had 3 sys 1's with different screws, fastners,sexbolts dowels etc and 1 with plastic horseshoe shims,a sys4 and a sys3. I did carry company power tools pc router, bosch jigsaw, makita planer and the company's supplied all the bigger tools at the jobs set up in central locations on each floor.

I was new at this company that had 120 installers in the feild and the project managers all noticed me because of my set up and organization. I was the only one that organized out of everyone. Plus they break down into small boxes and you never have to break your back.They ate it up. And i got more work than i even wanted and traveled all over the country working for them. Traveling jobs are tons of overtime. Dbltime $83 an hour.

Ok, back to the topic. 10 years later and im tired of the BS politics and id like to get back to my independent contractor roots. Back to scouring the internet to study festool because ive used all the other garbage out there. Sure the PC router routes. They have accessories too...edge guides and copy rings oh boy. I can use a straight edge and make my own templates for routing. Simply amazing. Skil saw and staight edge or home made sled.ive been doing that Crap for years and its just not accurate enough for me and the level of work i do, too slow for me to make money that way. Too many steps and too many ways to make an error.

For those reasons The track saw is a no brainer and a obvious starting point. And one of my favorite tools.the kapex is a the best saw out there hands down and anybody who owns one and doesnt think so probobly isnt aware of some of the best features on the saw. I havent met anyone who owns one that knew about using the stop flags and the metric tape to cut all cuts. Measure your piece, set the flag to that number and cut. It represents square,the short point or long point of the angle cut or bevel cut. Just depends on which way you orientate the angles or bevels of the saw to get the long/short points. Very fast and accurate.Plus theres an extra sweet spot for 4 3/4" tall cuts. A lot of people dont know about that either. Then they complain about the saw. If you want to use 10% of a saw dont buy a kapex. Invest some time and study your equipment.theres tons of info out there on youtube and even festool usa has pdf's for every tool.the really sick stuff comes in when you get into the routers and accessories plus the mfs templates and all the trick stuff that you can do repeatably and accuratly.then you throw the rails in the mix, rail dogs, mft,clamps. Sometard called the of1400 no different than any other router out there. This guy doesnt even have a clue about what that router can do with the horizontal plate attachment or complicated inlay work with the different collers. So in a way hes right, he doesnt have the skills to understand what all that stuff means. If all you know is edge routing and dados than yeah the 1400 is just like all the other routers. But for me it opens up 20 different things because of the accessories.

Domino is amazing.the RO's make quick work of all my sanding tasks.they are a little tricky.but crush the PC and bosch that i sold to help finance the RO. And they dont hold theyre value at all.

If you want to elevate your woodworking game, this is the way to go. Or if your not trying to get really technical and become more accurate then dont. Theres nothing wrong with that either you can do tons of cool stuff without festool. I just bugs me when people just talk trash because fe$tool costs alot of money or because they dont have the depth to understand the possibilities. The reason i have festool is because the work i do demands accuracy and repeatability with out extra math or calclating offsets. The more i can remove the possibilty of errors the better. We all lose focus from time to time and get complacent. I make way less errors because of the system. The system goes deep. Most people dont dig deep enough to get it. Personally i cant afford not to have festool.

Sorry bout the rant. Hope this helps.

[jmaichel]

I have a 22'x 22'2 car detached garage for my shop. Its my job so its not a hobby for me. Before i spent a penny on festool i studied the tools, the accessories that expanded the functionality of the tools , and what techniques people were using to get the most out of these tools.

before i opened my shop i was a union millworker working in the chicago loop.

in and out of highrises with my tools. I built a couple tool boxes and they were poor designs or too heavy and not organized enough. I realized pretty quickly that the systainers would be the best solution for my problem. I used a conversion dolly and made a work top to work off of and clamp stuff to and loaded it up with systainers. All i needed as a union installer was my hand tools. And i had 3 sys 1's with different screws, fastners,sexbolts dowels etc and 1 with plastic horseshoe shims,a sys4 and a sys3. I did carry company power tools pc router, bosch jigsaw, makita planer and the company's supplied all the bigger tools at the jobs set up in central locations on each floor.

I was new at this company that had 120 installers in the feild and the project managers all noticed me because of my set up and organization. I was the only one that organized out of everyone. Plus they break down into small boxes and you never have to break your back.They ate it up. And i got more work than i even wanted and traveled all over the country working for them. Traveling jobs are tons of overtime. Dbltime $83 an hour.

Ok, back to the topic. 10 years later and im tired of the BS politics and id like to get back to my independent contractor roots. Back to scouring the internet to study festool because ive used all the other garbage out there. Sure the PC router routes. They have accessories too...edge guides and copy rings oh boy. I can use a straight edge and make my own templates for routing. Simply amazing. Skil saw and staight edge or home made sled.ive been doing that Crap for years and its just not accurate enough for me and the level of work i do, too slow for me to make money that way. Too many steps and too many ways to make an error.

For those reasons The track saw is a no brainer and a obvious starting point. And one of my favorite tools.the kapex is a the best saw out there hands down and anybody who owns one and doesnt think so probobly isnt aware of some of the best features on the saw. I havent met anyone who owns one that knew about using the stop flags and the metric tape to cut all cuts. Measure your piece, set the flag to that number and cut. It represents square,the short point or long point of the angle cut or bevel cut. Just depends on which way you orientate the angles or bevels of the saw to get the long/short points. Very fast and accurate.Plus theres an extra sweet spot for 4 3/4" tall cuts. A lot of people dont know about that either. Then they complain about the saw. If you want to use 10% of a saw dont buy a kapex. Invest some time and study your equipment.theres tons of info out there on youtube and even festool usa has pdf's for every tool.the really sick stuff comes in when you get into the routers and accessories plus the mfs templates and all the trick stuff that you can do repeatably and accuratly.then you throw the rails in the mix, rail dogs, mft,clamps. Sometard called the of1400 no different than any other router out there. This guy doesnt even have a clue about what that router can do with the horizontal plate attachment or complicated inlay work with the different collers. So in a way hes right, he doesnt have the skills to understand what all that stuff means. If all you know is edge routing and dados than yeah the 1400 is just like all the other routers. But for me it opens up 20 different things because of the accessories.

Domino is amazing.the RO's make quick work of all my sanding tasks.they are a little tricky.but crush the PC and bosch that i sold to help finance the RO. And they dont hold theyre value at all.

If you want to elevate your woodworking game, this is the way to go. Or if your not trying to get really technical and become more accurate then dont. Theres nothing wrong with that either you can do tons of cool stuff without festool. I just bugs me when people just talk trash because fe$tool costs alot of money or because they dont have the depth to understand the possibilities. The reason i have festool is because the work i do demands accuracy and repeatability with out extra math or calclating offsets. The more i can remove the possibilty of errors the better. We all lose focus from time to time and get complacent. I make way less errors because of the system. The system goes deep. Most people dont dig deep enough to get it. Personally i cant afford not to have festool.

Sorry bout the rant. Hope this helps.

This is a pretty friendly forum so we would all appreciate if you left out the name calling. The "sometard" that your referred to actually has a good amount of Festool tools and actually does know what he is talking about. 

 

BTW, welcome to the forum!

[HausWerks]

Thanks James your right. Not cool. I should have left that out. My bad! my apologies to OP.

[Eric.]

Since I'm apparently "sometard," I'll go ahead and address your insult.  I have the OF1400 and I am quite aware of its capabilities...which, like I said, is nothing that almost any other plunge router can't do.  What Festool does that sets it apart is it makes those advanced techniques CONVENIENT for you by manufacturing all the gadgets and accessories...ALL of which you can build in your shop for a fraction of the cost...IF you have the skill and knowledge to do it.

 

If you feel like the time invested in creating shop-made jigs is not a wise business decision, then fine, that's a fair point...that's what you should have said.  But if you think that OF1400 accessory offerings are not replicable and that you CAN'T yield the same techniques with a Porter Cable, then maybe it's your skill set you should be questioning.  Having to rely on a fancy tool doesn't make you exceptional, sorry...it's quite the opposite...being able to produce top-quality work with limitations in tooling is what sets apart the true craftsman from the average Joe.  Owning and using tools that make tasks faster and easier when time is money does NOT equal a more skilled woodworker.

 

So before you go slinging around assumptions about people's skills, take a look in the mirror.  I've seen my work...and so has everyone else.  Go dig for it if you'd like...there's plenty of it for you to criticize if that interests you.  But we've never seen yours, so until you show me your masterpieces displayed in the Smithsonian, this sometard will sleep just fine tonight knowing that you speak before you think, and consequently, I'll take no offense to your uninformed disparagement.

 

Welcome to the forum...you're off to a good start.

[..Kev]

Yep, another "sometard" here as well that owns the OF1400 and made that comment that I like the Bosch 1617 every bit as well except for the dust collection.  I'll stick by that statement and my work.

[HausWerks]

E----->Since I'm apparently "sometard," I'll go ahead and address your insult. I have the OF1400 and I am quite aware of its capabilities...which, like I said, is nothing that almost any other plunge router can't do. What Festool does that sets it apart is it makes those advanced techniques CONVENIENT for you by manufacturing all the gadgets and accessories...ALL of which you can build in your shop for a fraction of the cost...IF you have the skill and knowledge to do it.

HW---->You should have said that because thats a good representation of festool and the of1400. But you didnt. You said its no different than any other router that's out there. Huge difference. And really irresponsible to even say that and hold back the rest of the information since this thread was started by someone trying to set up a shop and get peoples opinions on festool specifically. Are you a mod on this site? Im trying to figure out if theres an agenda here.

E---->If you feel like the time invested in creating shop-made jigs is not a wise business decision, then fine, that's a fair point...that's what you should have said. But if you think that OF1400 accessory offerings are not replicable and that you CAN'T yield the same techniques with a Porter Cable, then maybe it's your skill set you should be questioning.

HW---->what gave you the impression that i dont understand this concept?

your hilarious. Dont be mad at me for calling you out on a rediculous statement.the statement you made would make me question anyones ability level. I use the system with the 1400 and i would never say its the same as any other router out there. That would be the exact last thing that would come to my mind.

E---> Having to rely on a fancy tool doesn't make you exceptional, sorry...it's quite the opposite...being able to produce top-quality work with limitations in tooling is what sets apart the true craftsman from the average Joe. Owning and using tools that make tasks faster and easier when time is money does NOT equal a more skilled woodworker.

HW------>That sounds like a guy that has a too much time on his hands. Dude you sound hardcore. you should be using a yankee instead of a drill or hand planes to route your stuff. Dont give me that crap.i dont need any lessons from you. I apologize for the tard comment but thats it.

Ive been making jigs and modifying tools my whole career.for me time is money if i can do something faster and more accurately than making another template or jig, damn right im gonna do it. That allows me to offer a better value to my customers and allow me to make more money at the same time. Im dealing with finished millwork thats usually grain matched, and a ton of work has gone into it before i install it and if i make an error it costs bigtime cause im not going to home depot to grab another peice. One mistake can make or break a job. I know how to make jigs and templates i dont need to prove to myself that i can make another one, what i need to do is get this hardware mortised as fast as possible or what ever the task is. I dont care if you like festool or not. If your happy with your tools and your system then sweet, I'm happy with your set up too.

I have nothing against Pc, dewalt or any other brand at all. Alot of there tools just dont quit, you can have them forever and they wont break.thats awesome,great value. I personally need something more dynamic and ive got it. Honestly id love to have a large cnc to cut my parts. Ive built thousands of cabinets, cabinet doors, drawers, paneling, beams whatever i dont have to cut every piece to validate myself. I dont care. My buddies that have cnc's are making between $300 to $400 and hour cause their spitting out boxes every couple minutes. I love woodworking and i love installing cool $h1t but i dont see the benifit of making anothet jig or template if i dont have to. But if you do that's cool. Theres a lot that goes into jigs and a lot of skill to make a perfect one. Ive got a lot of respect for crafty frugal woodworkers.

E im not mad at you and if you have more to say post it or pm me ive been told to keep it friendly and i agree i got off on a bad post.

To the other guy who commented to me ive owned that router its a good one. I wasnt commenting on you.

Sorry to let you down chicago guy. The tard comment was wrong.

[tcarswell]

Unbelievable ... well said james. Way to hop into a forum feet first guns blazing eh.

[Cochese]

Bless his heart.

[Eric.]

Listen, partner...in the spirit of the peaceful nature of this forum, I'm not gonna waste my time arguing with you and drag everyone down with us.  Besides, there's never any point in going back and forth with a guy who already knows everything.

 

But I will add, since you mentioned it...I have a shop full of Festools...you may wanna go back and read that part again since I guess you missed it.  So I'm not sure what "agenda" you might be imagining...but if there is one and you get to the bottom of it, let me know so I can complain to someone about not getting my royalty checks.

 

Good day...I'm done with this one.

[jmaichel]

Let's put this to bed and focus on helping the OP.

 

At one point in my shop had a good amount of Festool's so here are my thoughts.

 

Domino- I might be only woodworker in the world who was not in love with this tool. For short of amount of time that I owned one I kept trying to figure out projects where I could use my Domino, I felt guilty spending that much on a tool that saw limited use. 

 

TS-55/75 I thought both were really nice saws and performed very well, especially when hooked up to a CT. I liked the 75 more than the 55 because I could use it in thicker hardwood.

 

MFT/3- Really cool and versatile table but way overpriced. Many times I found myself wanting an extra couple inches of depth when making crosscuts. I would not buy this again.

 

Sanders- My only experience is the an ETS 150/3 and DTS. Significantly better than any sanders that they sell at the big box stores. I have never used Mirka or 3M sanders so I can't give a honest comparison. I would opt for an ETS 150/5 and RO 90 if I were to do it again. I would not get any of the other RO sanders I think that are overpriced, I would put the money toward a drum sander instead. 

 

OF1400- Liked it but not sure it's any better than some of the other routers out there. However, when it did prove it's worth when I attached to a FT track and used it to cut dados and stopped dado's in a few pieces. Dust collection is awesome but I find at times it would just get in the way. Not sure I would buy another OF1400 or just go with a Bosch 1617 and deal with the mess.

 

Kapex- I have never owned any miter saw so again I am not sure on this one. I would have a hard time throwing $1400 on saw that I really have never needed before. All crosscutting was done on the table saw and rough cuts were made by hand. I would probably opt for a 10" Bosch and be perfectly happy. 

 

Drills- I have only had experience with the CXS, not super impressed for the price. I am very happy with my 12V Bosch drills, I think they are the Bee's Knees!

 

Just my opinion.