matthew-s Posted December 14, 2014 Report Share Posted December 14, 2014 I'm still working on my first piece of furniture. It's a game table made of birch. The legs and apron are all glued up. Despite little learnings here and there I'm quite satisfied with that part. My focus is now on the top. It is supposed to be a frame and panel affair. I'm working the lumber for the stiles, and it's giving me fits! I don't have a jointer, but I do have a brand new DeWalt 745 planer. The stile stock started out somewhat warped and bowed, but not terribly. Not more than a 1/16 or so. I created a planer sled out of a melamine shelf, shingle scraps, and hot glue. I've been able to mill wind out of the toe of the four boards, but not the bow. I'd say the boards are a solid 1/16 bowed. Before I go at the next two boards, I wanted to ask the group what I should do. Leave well enough alone, and I just let the panel and table top buttons hold it flat to the table apron? Or something else? Is there any hope here? I'm not sure to what extent you get flat wood via milling versus joinery. Thanks! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardA Posted December 14, 2014 Report Share Posted December 14, 2014 Had me for minute... A 745 is a portable table saw... You meant 735... Okay! Do you have a hand plane to take out the worst of the bow? then run it thru the planer for flat! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthew-s Posted December 15, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 15, 2014 Had me for minute... A 745 is a portable table saw... You meant 735... Okay! Do you have a hand plane to take out the worst of the bow? then run it thru the planer for flat! Yes, the 735. Yes, I have a low angle jack, but my work holding options are pretty awful. A real bench is in my future. I would have thought that shimming the board on my planer sled would have done the trick. I suspect there is a bunch is stress in the board, but I have no idea how I'd tell that for sure. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted December 15, 2014 Report Share Posted December 15, 2014 I'll take this one since no one else wants to say it and be "that guy," as usual, and as usual I have no problem being "that guy"... Buy a jointer. Yes, in certain cases you can use a planer sled to get a board flat. It works better on 8/4 boards because the flex is minimal...4/4 wants to spring back the way it went in unless it's absolutely perfectly shimmed and secured as it goes through. Cold hard truth: a planer is for planing. If you want flat boards, you need a jointer. That's why they were invented. That said, I realize you're just starting out and you're waist-deep in a project, and since you probably can't go out and buy a jointer tomorrow you're looking for solutions for your present problem. So, you mentioned the top is going to be frame and panel. Will the panel be hardwood or ply? How big is the top? How thick? What shape? How will the panel and frame be joined? Give us this info and more ideas will be made available. 1/16" can either be significant or insignificant, depending upon over what length of board that bow exists, and how you will be attaching the parts. It's quite possible that the bowed frame part can be pulled back to flat simply by attaching it to a flat panel, depending... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthew-s Posted December 15, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 15, 2014 I'll take this one since no one else wants to say it and be "that guy," as usual, and as usual I have no problem being "that guy"... Buy a jointer. So, you mentioned the top is going to be frame and panel. Will the panel be hardwood or ply? How big is the top? How thick? What shape? How will the panel and frame be joined? Give us this info and more ideas will be made available. 1/16" can either be significant or insignificant, depending upon over what length of board that bow exists, and how you will be attaching the parts. It's quite possible that the bowed frame part can be pulled back to flat simply by attaching it to a flat panel, depending...First off, I always appreciate the truth-teller in the room For the immediate problem: The stock is (was) 4/4. Each rail is about 4 1/2 wide x 32-ish long. The stiles were to be joined via 1/2 lapped miters. The panel is planned to be ply with leather or similar (probably faux leather) on top. Images attached. What next? Try to make it work, see what happens, or scrap these and head back to the lumber yard? At least they are not twisted anymore! I have a feeling I might be able to get away with them, but I'm a bit worried about cutting the grove for the panel on my table saw, given the bow. Perhaps I could clamp it to my sled . . . With that aside: Going forward, I really want to focus on hand tools. So I hope I can figure out how to do this w/o a power jointer. I got the planer because I figured I'd need it to do a laminated bench. Then my work holding problems should be solved. Oh, and I got the planet because The Schwarz said to . Any thoughts on my best next move is greatly appreciated. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodbutcher74 Posted December 15, 2014 Report Share Posted December 15, 2014 Personally I don't think you'll have that much of problem.If you keep trying to get perfect boards you'll never get anything built. It really surprises me that the Schwartz tells you to buy a planer you run out and get one. Eric tells you to go out and get a jointer and you blow him off? Not going to make many points around here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthew-s Posted December 15, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 15, 2014 No, not blowing Eric off. I just don't have the room, $$ for one, at least not with recent investments. I was lead to believe you could get away with a planer only if you hand joint one side. The logic made sense to me at the time. I paid my money and took my chances. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodbutcher74 Posted December 15, 2014 Report Share Posted December 15, 2014 I totally understand the room and the money issue. Was just being a smart ace, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthew-s Posted December 15, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 15, 2014 No worries I figured. I want to be respectful of the advice though. It can't be easy suffering the newbies all the time. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhighlander Posted December 15, 2014 Report Share Posted December 15, 2014 I think you can probably pull those flat when you attach the top to the aprons, but you will surely have problems cutting the groove on the tablesaw. You will probably get the groove cut, and the panel will fit fine, but the lapped miters will give you fits. How much thickness is left in your stock? If there is enough for another pass through the planer, try using hot melt glue to 'shim' the board to the sled. Be liberal with it, and fill under the edges of the bow thoroughly. Let it cool and harden before planing. That might make things stable enough to get a really flat board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthew-s Posted December 15, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 15, 2014 That is the frustrating bit. I used hot glue and shims on my sled to support the board to try to get a true face relative to the sled. So I'm thinking I either screwed it up, or there is stress in the board, or my sled is a crappy substitute for a jointer (or all of the above). Maybe I should just press forward and see what happens? The tricky bit may just be cutting the groves as you point out. Hmmm. Well I have a few days to think over it before I can get shop time. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhighlander Posted December 15, 2014 Report Share Posted December 15, 2014 Do you have a router table? At least you wouldn't have kickback probkems cutting the grokves with it. Honestly though, the saw will probably do fine, I just think the corners will end up a little out of line. Might not be enough to notice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthew-s Posted December 15, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 15, 2014 No router table. But I have one of those little trim routers with a fence, and a workmate bench, so I'm plenty dangerous. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coop Posted December 17, 2014 Report Share Posted December 17, 2014 Sometimes things can be just too flat. My ex wife was a good example.As well as this one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ResidentEvil Posted December 18, 2014 Report Share Posted December 18, 2014 The bow is along the face of the board and not the edge right? And what thickness of ply are you using for the panel? I'm thinking that 1/16" bow over a nearly 3' long piece isn't that bad. If you are using any 1/2" or greater thickness ply, it will take care of that bow no problem. Cutting the groove in the edge face to hold the panel shouldn't be a problem. Make yourself an extra long auxiliary fence for your table saw, long enough to support the whole board on either side of the blade. Put the bow facing the fence and make sure you position a feather board just ahead of the saw blade to keep the board tight to the fence. Take it slow and easy and you should get the groove cut safely. Alternately, if you have a way to hold the boards on edge securely, you can make a small centering jig for your router and do it that way. On the half laps, I'd cut them extra long and trim the excess off with a hand saw after you glue up. Sand or plane to finish. That way you dont have to worry about making the joints perfect and then getting goofed up due to the bow. Just my .02 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthew-s Posted December 18, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 18, 2014 Thanks! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardA Posted December 18, 2014 Report Share Posted December 18, 2014 No, not blowing Eric off. I just don't have the room, $$ for one, at least not with recent investments. I was lead to believe you could get away with a planer only if you hand joint one side. The logic made sense to me at the time. I paid my money and took my chances. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Here's an option.... If you think the bow will screw you up... Take the board to your lumber yard and ask them to the joint the face that's giving you the problem. If they won't do that for a customer, you might want to consider another supplier! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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