Trip Posted December 18, 2014 Report Share Posted December 18, 2014 ==>150/5 Switched to CEROS. I kept the rest of the FT line … ==>current sanding schedule post-milling Actually, initial construction sanding is part of my milling workflow... Everything goes straight from the planer through the stationary sander for final thicknessing (80g belt)*. I really don’t care what the thickness is as long as the components are all about the same… Usually do a pass or two to remove the 80g pattern and work to around 120/150g… After that, it’s the RoS… I really don't use portable sanders much below 120/150g... *Special case: If it's something like figured Maple (which is 80% of what I’m doing at the moment), then I'll apply a trace coat as the stock comes off the planer, but prior to final thicknessing… The sander gets you to final thickness and sands-back the dye at the same time – killing two birds at once… ==>pigtails I can't quite get past the pigtail issue... The 150/3 is the smoothest non-pneumatic sander I've ever used... The only other electric sander in that category that I've used is the CEROS 2.5mm... Have you borrowed another sander to see if yours has some sort of issue? Maybe head to a Woodcraft with your sander and do a side-by-side… Don’t know, but I just can’t remember it being much of an issue… BTW: with the 150/3, I set the vac all the way to 'turtle'... ==>white pad I'm assuming by white, you mean light gray top with a lot of white foam? That's the ultra-soft pad... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted December 18, 2014 Report Share Posted December 18, 2014 Your using a semi open paper on hard wood. It bottoms out and causes pig tails switching grits prevents this. If you want to skip switching grits switch to a closed paper but consumption will be higher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wouldwurker Posted December 18, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 18, 2014 Sorry for the total thread-jack, Vinny. I'd complain to the moderator, but he's useless. Anyway, when your pigtails are straightened out, I think we should all address your use of the phrase, "Turtle Suction," Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted December 19, 2014 Report Share Posted December 19, 2014 Gaa. This is why it's so frustrating...because there's no explanation of what I'm doing wrong. Everything is by the book as far as I can tell. The Woodcraft idea might be the way to go. Trip, the pad is all white...a creamy white. Except the hook and loop part is black. About a half inch thick. Maybe 5/8". It's the pad that came with it when I bought it and the only one I have and the only one I've ever used. But it's not that soft. Slightly squishy...just slightly. Perhaps I should try some other pads. Just to eliminate that variable if for no other reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted December 19, 2014 Report Share Posted December 19, 2014 Kiki’s pigtail issue - Summary: 1. New paper, no problem 2. Paper used for 5-10 minutes, pigtails on Hard Maple, but not softer species 3. Swapping new paper cures issue 4. Sanding bare wood 5. Turtle suction (low and slow) 6. Little pressure 7. Using Rubin/Rubin 2 8. Gray/white pad – ultra-soft That about capture it? Questions: How old’s the pad? Have you tried any of the long-lasting abrasives – like ordering yourself an Abranet sample pack? How old’s the abrasive – FT’s Rubin was quite friable and fast wearing – it left a great surface, but you went through paper quickly (10mins)… Rubin2 uses a stronger binder and a less friable abrasive – the paper lasts longer and stays sharper longer to remove stock faster, but the surface isn’t quite the same… I switched to Abranet quite some time ago, so little experience with Rubin2. Let’s experiment: Do you have a sandpaper erasure? If so, sand some hard maple until you get pigtails, clean the paper with the erasure and: 1. pigtails go away (loading issue) 2. pigtails remain (premature abrasive breakdown) 3. Rubin2 is crap... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdwerker Posted December 19, 2014 Report Share Posted December 19, 2014 I am switching from Rubin to Granat as I use up boxes of abrasive. I find it cuts better and lasts longer. Vinny, congrats on the new vibrator ! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coop Posted December 19, 2014 Report Share Posted December 19, 2014 I had no idea what pigtails were so I gargled it...to borrow your term Eric... and low and behold what comes up...? Brings me right back here to help me understand it and maybe avoid it. I googled it too. The term only shows up under the word "Festool" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdwerker Posted December 19, 2014 Report Share Posted December 19, 2014 Gargle "sanding pigtails " and it shows up in a lot of auto body and 3m posts ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wouldwurker Posted December 19, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 19, 2014 Vinny, congrats on the new vibrator ! Ummm, the catalog said 'Marital Aid' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted December 19, 2014 Report Share Posted December 19, 2014 Kiki’s pigtail issue - Summary: 1. New paper, no problem 2. Paper used for 5-10 minutes, pigtails on Hard Maple, but not softer species 3. Swapping new paper cures issue 4. Sanding bare wood 5. Turtle suction (low and slow) 6. Little pressure 7. Using Rubin/Rubin 2 8. Gray/white pad – ultra-soft That about capture it? Questions: How old’s the pad? Have you tried any of the long-lasting abrasives – like ordering yourself an Abranet sample pack? How old’s the abrasive – FT’s Rubin was quite friable and fast wearing – it left a great surface, but you went through paper quickly (10mins)… Rubin2 uses a stronger binder and a less friable abrasive – the paper lasts longer and stays sharper longer to remove stock faster, but the surface isn’t quite the same… I switched to Abranet quite some time ago, so little experience with Rubin2. Let’s experiment: Do you have a sandpaper erasure? If so, sand some hard maple until you get pigtails, clean the paper with the erasure and: 1. pigtails go away (loading issue) 2. pigtails remain (premature abrasive breakdown) 3. Rubin2 is crap... Or the sander is defective somehow. Of course I've had this issue as long as I've had it, so unless it came from the factory that way... Otherwise, you summed it up. The pad is about three years old I guess. But that's deceiving. I'm not in a production shop, so all in all it hasn't seen THAT many hours. Just normal hobby use, so it shouldn't be the pad...unless it's defective. I've only used Rubin, ever. All the paper I currently have is about a year, maybe 18 months old or newer. Can't imagine that's the problem. Also can't imagine Rubin 2 is crap, otherwise FOG would be filled with "Rubin 2 is crap" threads...and I don't recall seeing any of those. Maybe I missed them? I do use the eraser and it seems to help. So loading may be the issue. But what exactly can I do about loading if I have to keep the suck on turtle? If I turn up the suck, I seem to get pigtails from that. Catch-22. Should I really have to clean a disc every five minutes? I think I might have to just call Festool and see if they'll trade me for a new unit. I know they'll act like I'm the problem and it's not the sander, but I just don't know what else to try. Thanks for brainstorming with me, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted December 21, 2014 Report Share Posted December 21, 2014 Today I bought a 150/5 plus a hard pad, an RO90, and five boxes of paper. Wasting my money on sanders is great fun. If I can't get rid of pigtails now, I'm taking my Festools to MOunt Rushmore and tossing them off. After I call Festech support. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..Kev Posted December 21, 2014 Report Share Posted December 21, 2014 I look forward to your review on the 90... It's on my short list! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted December 21, 2014 Report Share Posted December 21, 2014 Could be a while. I bought it for a special project that's coming down the pike. Expect the review by mid summer. Or possibly sooner if I decide to stop working. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..Kev Posted December 21, 2014 Report Share Posted December 21, 2014 All good.. I'm in no hurry.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
estesbubba Posted December 21, 2014 Report Share Posted December 21, 2014 I have the 150/5 and running vac at 25% doesn't produce pigtails on hard maple but higher suction will. I've used Festool paper, Klingspor PS33, and Rhynogrip and none leave pigtails. I like the PS33 paper the best based on price and performance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
estesbubba Posted December 21, 2014 Report Share Posted December 21, 2014 To clarify my dial goes from 8 to 4 but meter from 10 to 2. When sanding my dial is just where the meter starts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted December 21, 2014 Report Share Posted December 21, 2014 ==>I bought a 150/5 plus a hard pad, an RO90, and five boxes of paper I've got the RO90 -- of the Rotex line, that's the only one that's useful... It's a great DIY sander, but I haven't seen to much use in the shop... I'm still interested in the pigtail issue -- when you get up and running, I'd send the 150/3 back to FT... You experience is so far removed from other /3 owners that it almost has to be something with the sander itself... ==>my dial goes from 8 to 4 but meter from 10 to 2 To all you 'turtle' nay-sayers -- much better than 8/4 and 10/2... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted December 21, 2014 Report Share Posted December 21, 2014 You experience is so far removed from other /3 owners that it almost has to be something with the sander itself... That's pretty much where I am. It has to be malfunctioning somehow. I've eliminated every other variable (aside from trying a hard pad, which I will...but it still shouldn't be giving me pigtails with the soft pad, regardless...) I'm planning on building a pair of Maloof low-backs this year. I bought the RO90 mostly for that to help with the late stages of the sculpting. Maybe it will be useful, maybe not. But I've had many occasions I wished I had one for coarse sanding on curves...so now I do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted December 21, 2014 Report Share Posted December 21, 2014 ==>I bought the RO90 mostly for that to help with the late stages of the sculpting Yea, that might work... One of these is useful for initial sanding after the shape is established: http://katools.com/carving-tools/guinevere-minature-finishers/-- it's the kind of thing I don't use all that often, but the odd times when I do, it pays for itself... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted December 21, 2014 Report Share Posted December 21, 2014 Looks interesting. I find it a little disconcerting that it's Swedish and there's no price listed...don't have to be a genius to know what that means. I have some sanding attachments for my die grinder. Some are useful, some are worthless. I'm also probably gonna add an Arbortech Minigrinder to supplement my other AT grinders. The Woodworking Shows will be here in February...AT is always there and I think I remember they discounted at the show. Probably not much. In all reality, most of the shaping on these chairs will have to be done with rasps. It's gonna be super-time consuming so I'm just trying to minimize it. Maloof himself said it takes up to three weeks to shape a chair...and that's the man himself doing it after four decades of practice. Probably gonna take me half the year. I've been pushing it off and pushing it off for that very reason. But I'm dying to build them. This thread is so far off the rails it's not even worth apologizing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted December 22, 2014 Report Share Posted December 22, 2014 ==>a little disconcerting that it's Swedish and there's no price listed http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/416451/king-arthurs-tools-total-sanding-kit.aspx ==>sanding attachments for my die grinder. Some are useful, some are worthless. So, want to shape some wood? http://www.amazon.com/SGS-Tool-Company-18211-Diameter/dp/B001VXSL60/ref=sr_1_26?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1419213478&sr=1-26&keywords=Rotary+Burr ==>done with rasps I've got this puppy -- removes stock like crazy -- leaves a pretty good surface: https://www.lie-nielsen.com/product/half-round-roughing-rasp/half-round-roughing-rasp-12-half-round-?node=4153. If you ask, LN may have the curved profile version in their stock room... It's perfect for chairs... What was this thread about anyway? Ohhhh, yea -- sanders... Well the top item is a sander... BTW: burrs are really handy for curved work and DIY activities -- just practice first... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdG Posted December 22, 2014 Report Share Posted December 22, 2014 I'm joining the green cool aid club shortly. I've been caught between the 150/3 and the RS2E for the past month or so. Recently a couple items swayed me toward the RS2E. First was the ergonomics of 150/3 - it just felt to top heavy for my liking. Second item, just a couple of days age I saw a YouTube video on the new 150 EC. The new unit seems more compact, lower center of gravity and about 1/2lb lighter. So, my thought is to go with the RS2E now, which works great for flat panel work then wait till this Fall to acquire the new 150EC. Tomorrow I pull the plug on my first Festool Package - CT26 + RS2E! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wouldwurker Posted December 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 22, 2014 I'm popping my RS2E cherry tonight. I'll let you know how it goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted December 22, 2014 Report Share Posted December 22, 2014 Just remember, the 1/2s don't remove stock like an RoS, so manage expectations... If you've got it set-up well, it should 'float' across the surface of a table top... Not 'air hockey' float, but there should be zero downward pressure, little vac, etc... It should take little-to-no effort to move the sander over the surface... One note: the top should look flat before starting... This is not construction sanding -- panel seams should be flush, no glue, no bumps, etc... If the surface needs stock removal, use another tool -- a smoother, a Jack with a slight radius, an RoS, whatever... The 2/e is a finish sander... Good luck... BTW: you've seen a release date on the 150EC to North America? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wouldwurker Posted December 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 22, 2014 Good to know. Thanks Trip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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