tim0625 Posted December 20, 2014 Report Share Posted December 20, 2014 i was just on the 360 Woodworking site and reading Bob Lang's article about looking at old pieces. He mentioned traveling to a gallery to see a piece and make sketches and how he was limited by the gallery. I totally understand some galleries not letting people handle the pieces at will but to not let someone take measurements with a simple small square like Bob was using, sounds odd to me. I realize something could happen and he could potentially scratch a piece with his stainless steel square; but they could allow measurements as long as he uses a polycarbonate square. Do they just not want the piece reproduced? Photography - ok...priceless pieces left by the window with the afternoon sun on it...duh....we see all the mayhem that would occur; but photo flash? Come on....My wife's been a photographer for 44 years....I don't believe photography by a few craftsman a year like Bob Lang is going to harm an antique. Yes, my wife's flashes are very bright but 50 flashes of Bob's camera is not going to harm anything. The flashes from a Bob-per-month wouldn't harm the piece. So why the curator constipation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted December 20, 2014 Report Share Posted December 20, 2014 I understand it. You give the public an inch and they'll take the whole thing. If I were entrusted with historical works of art, you can bet I'd keep the morons away from them. Problem is, you can't tell who's a moron and who's not just by looking at people (usually). So you just have to assume it's everyone. The "one bad apple" syndrome. Not being able to take photos I don't really get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted December 20, 2014 Report Share Posted December 20, 2014 You want to copy it for profit buy it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim0625 Posted December 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 20, 2014 Maybe it's a gallery vs museum thing....i guess if he's going to a gallery to see it....that piece is for sale. (?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..Kev Posted December 20, 2014 Report Share Posted December 20, 2014 I'd be willing to bet something could be arranged by asking first.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Lang Posted December 20, 2014 Report Share Posted December 20, 2014 In the article I was speaking to my direct experience with rare antiques in museums and historic sites. Most museums have policies regarding the pieces they have on public view and when photography is allowed, it's generally a "no flash, no tripod" policy. That may as well be "no photography" because there rarely is enough ambient light to get a good photo. I have also been given access to behind the scenes items. Many museums own more furniture than they have room to display, so they keep it stored in a basement room or some other location. Even in these areas, most museums don't allow photography, touching or measuring. The curator will pull out a drawer or open a door if asked. I can understand these policies in a way, these pieces are one of a kind and need to be handled with care. On the other hand, I'm a serious student of these items and my goal is to increase the general knowledge about how and why old pieces were made the way they were. I don't think guys like us are likely to lessen the value of historic pieces by building reproductions of them, but many museum curators and antique dealers don't agree with me. I believe that things are loosening up a bit, at least in some places. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim0625 Posted December 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 20, 2014 I understand if a gallery has a piece for sale - they would rather you buy it than reproduce it; so they limit the techniques that lend themselves to reproducing it but in the case of a museum, it seems different to me. You may make an exact reproduction but it is still not as valuable as the piece made in 1750 and the fact that one would reproduce it would give more recognition to the original but in the case of a museum as it concerns flash photography, I don't get their reasoning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpt life Posted December 20, 2014 Report Share Posted December 20, 2014 Is it genuine?: A guide to the identification of eighteenth-century English furniture https://www.amazon.com/dp/0805510419/ref=cm_sw_r_awd_7cCLub02MXMTV%22%5D Tim, I bought this on Graham's recommendation when it was nowhere close to this price. It is a great read with regard to this topic if you can find a cheaper or library copy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodbutcher74 Posted December 21, 2014 Report Share Posted December 21, 2014 I had some friends that just returned from Rome. They were saying that at all the historic places that flash photography was strictly forbidden. They also were telling us that the intense light from the flashes were deteriorating the works like the Sistine chapel. Also the excess moisture and gases from just the breath of the all the visitors had done irreparable damage to the historic art. Just a thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryMcK Posted December 21, 2014 Report Share Posted December 21, 2014 Is it genuine?: A guide to the identification of eighteenth-century English furniture ]https://www.amazon.com/dp/0805510419/ref=cm_sw_r_awd_7cCLub02MXMTV"] Tim, I bought this on Graham's recommendation when it was nowhere close to this price. It is a great read with regard to this topic if you can find a cheaper or library copy.I bought it for very little money from the UK Amazon. From memory I think I paid £1 with £3 postage. It is a seriously good read for people with the even slightest interest in furniture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhighlander Posted December 21, 2014 Report Share Posted December 21, 2014 Nothing lasts forever. Personally, I feel that museums should record and publish dimensions and construction details, along with plenty of photos, just so the knowledge isn't lost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted December 21, 2014 Report Share Posted December 21, 2014 I think there's a massive difference between the Sistine Chapel and some old furniture. Not just in the physical delicacy of the former, but the historical importance...at least according to the masses. Can a flash really damage mahogany? I kind of doubt it. Maybe I'm naive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted December 21, 2014 Report Share Posted December 21, 2014 I tend to side with the museums. If you want to take a couple pics and go home and make a similar object for yourself then great. I don't agree with detailed copies or published plans for the masses for a profit. We all copy to one degree or another but there is a line and we all have to decide for ourselves where that line lands. I was disturbed the first time I saw Maloof stuff being distributed in this way. Mr Maloof openly stated it was flattering and did not mind, BUT the one thing he did not want was mass production. I think he would be disgusted to find out that guys are making his work on CNC machines and banging them out for a profit. I respected the man obviously some are not going to have the same respect. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpt life Posted December 21, 2014 Report Share Posted December 21, 2014 This is one reason I respect Schwarz of late. Does he sell projects, or does he sell instruction? This is also why I have always respected Underhill. They seem to dispense the how and why without angering people about copies. I think this is like a good old boys club. You have to establish a relationship with curators and be proven a scholar. Most guys who actively build will struggle to do this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted December 21, 2014 Report Share Posted December 21, 2014 Remember, there are usually two museums – the one you see (public display) and the one you don’t (research)… Some of the requests mentioned above are already in-place… If you’ve got the credentials and need access for scholarship, you can work through the curator to get what you need (most of the time). Remember, many museum-quality antiques are valued in the seven-figures, so a how-to article for PopW doesn’t quite cut it…The insurance requirements alone can be quite burdensome. Casual access (or even the not-so casual) is really not an option… There are one or two WTO members who are published in peer-reviewed journals… If you want to get a feel for it, check-out JAIC: http://cool.conservation-us.org/jaic/ Not exactly a page turner... As for the photography – the issues around flash parallel most access issues – if you permit a particular behavior in one area of a museum; it’s hard to control it in other areas… It’s simply more efficient to prohibit the behavior entirely… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim0625 Posted December 21, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 21, 2014 If you want to get a feel for it, check-out JAIC: http://cool.conservation-us.org/jaic/ I did....Shame on you...that's 4 good minutes I'll never get back Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted December 21, 2014 Report Share Posted December 21, 2014 Not exactly a page turner, is it? But, if you're interested in 200 year old finishes, that's the thing... I had the warning in the post, but had a problem with the link -- The new Google advert setup is screwing with links... I'll go back and try again... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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