wdwerker Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 Slight chance if the top moves more than the swing of the figure 8 you could either get a humped up top or a crack. Worst a z clip would do is pull out of the kerf or slight hump. I usually start w 2/3 of the clip in the kerf. Figure 8's need to be installed a a slight angle to the cross grain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwacked Posted January 31, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 Slight chance if the top moves more than the swing of the figure 8 you could either get a humped up top or a crack. Worst a z clip would do is pull out of the kerf or slight hump. I usually start w 2/3 of the clip in the kerf. Figure 8's need to be installed a a slight angle to the cross grain. How secure are z clips? Will the table move if pushed on or ran into? It's gotta be kid proof. For let's say a 4' apron how many clips do I need to use? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdwerker Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 Maybe every foot or so? Play with the height of the kerf, you can put a good bit of tension on the clips, top won't slip from kids but wood movement is still allowed . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpt life Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 I figure eight stable products like plywood. It is much more about a hidden screw hold and less about movement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwacked Posted January 31, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 I figure eight stable products like plywood. It is much more about a hidden screw hold and less about movement. Huh? Sorry I don't understand that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodger. Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 I just use a shop solution for table top artachement. Check out the journal of the coffee table build Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpt life Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 Huh? Sorry I don't understand that The figure eight fastener pictured is only effective for expansion and contraction with a screw shank thinner than the hardware is drilled in one orientation. The problem is that you also have the depression designed to flush seat a screw in the hardware. I know guys use them, but they are not truly designed to account for movement unless you use them in very specific ways. For example, with a solid wood table top that is four feet long and two feet wide figure eights are only effective on the two foot ends. This may be ok but the four foot length needs more support in the middle. Double the size of the table and the issue is bigger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwacked Posted January 31, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 The figure eight fastener pictured is only effective for expansion and contraction with a screw shank thinner than the hardware is drilled in one orientation. The problem is that you also have the depression designed to flush seat a screw in the hardware. I know guys use them, but they are not truly designed to account for movement unless you use them in very specific ways. For example, with a solid wood table top that is four feet long and two feet wide figure eights are only effective on the two foot ends. This may be ok but the four foot length needs more support in the middle. Double the size of the table and the issue is bigger. Ok that makes more sense. One more question though. What do you mean by needs more support in the middle? Like instead of using them every foot, maybe go 6" in the middle? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdwerker Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 Every foot is plenty. Z clips better for your table size. If you use figure 8's they need to rotate to accomodate expansion/contraction. Can be tricky to get the max travel and it's going to be less than the z clips. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 For an 8/4 top, every foot is total overkill. I would do two on each end, and three along the length on each side. It's only to attach the top to the base, not to keep the top flat...if your 8/4 top wants to bow, it'll bow and either pull out the screws or take the base with it. Some clips ain't gonna stop it. 4/4 is a different story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwacked Posted January 31, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 Every foot is plenty. Z clips better for your table size. If you use figure 8's they need to rotate to accomodate expansion/contraction. Can be tricky to get the max travel and it's going to be less than the z clips. Since I'm dumb. What do you mean I would need to rotate the figure 8s? Like rotate the small end and the bigger ends in the apron? Is that what you mean? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwacked Posted January 31, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 For an 8/4 top, every foot is total overkill. I would do two on each end, and three along the length on each side. It's only to attach the top to the base, not to keep the top flat...if your 8/4 top wants to bow, it'll bow and either pull out the screws or take the base with it. Some clips ain't gonna stop it. 4/4 is a different story. So you're saying the figure 8s will work for this 8/4 top if needed? But if I was using 4/4 I would need the Z clips? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpt life Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 I would not use figure eights in solid wood. You can, but why? If getting max travel is tricky, and they are best used on the ends then I would move on. The Z clips will work the entire way around the table. One process to prep, one hardware purchase. A KISS model in practice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 So you're saying the figure 8s will work for this 8/4 top if needed? But if I was using 4/4 I would need the Z clips? I would probably use the clips on this one. Like Carus is saying, you couldn't use the figure 8s along the length unless you got clever with the installation, and at that point it doesn't make much sense to go through the trouble. If it were me, I might use figure 8s on the ends and the Z clips along the length because I think the figure 8s are a more solid connection and it would make me feel good to at least have them on the ends. Or go with a shop-made solution like Pug suggested...which is the cheapest and most woodworky thing to do anyway. That gives it the most class and highest cool factor...but I've used the figure 8s and Z clips in the past, so I'm not judging. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwacked Posted January 31, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 Ok so with this pug ... You just drilled 6 screws into the table top to secure it? This would work for my table as well? Now forgive the ignorance here, but ... How does this let the wood move better than the figure 8s or Z clips? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodger. Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 I wouldn't claim that it allows the wood to move more, but it's certaily sufficient for a lot of movement. Yes, I only used 6 screws and the top isn't going anywhere. I even lift it from the top to move it when my daughter wants to dance to Rio2 in the living room. Wood movement is primarily across the grain. The relieved holes allow movement in that direction. Each hole is cut in two stages: first I use a 1/4" router bit to cut a through slot about 1" long, or longer. I do this on the router table with the fence. Then I change the bit to 3/4", and rout over the exiting slot to accommodate the washer head screw (kreg in my case). I suppose I should have sanded thoses whiskers away, haha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
estesbubba Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 Isn't that a pocket hole penalty for a Domino owner? BW cut a kerf in your aprons, use z clips, and you're good to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodger. Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 Isn't that a pocket hole penalty for a Domino owner? BW cut a kerf in your aprons, use z clips, and you're good to go. Pocket screws make it easy to attach the cleats after assemble and finish. Makes life easier. If I'm screwing the top on anyways, what's the differene if pocket holes are used for the cleats? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
estesbubba Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 Pocket screws make it easy to attach the cleats after assemble and finish. Makes life easier. If I'm screwing the top on anyways, what's the differene if pocket holes are used for the cleats? I was just messin' with you. I used pocket screws on my outfeed table base in case I ever decide to downsize it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodger. Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 I know you were just messing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwacked Posted January 31, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 I wouldn't claim that it allows the wood to move more, but it's certaily sufficient for a lot of movement. Yes, I only used 6 screws and the top isn't going anywhere. I even lift it from the top to move it when my daughter wants to dance to Rio2 in the living room. Wood movement is primarily across the grain. The relieved holes allow movement in that direction. Each hole is cut in two stages: first I use a 1/4" router bit to cut a through slot about 1" long, or longer. I do this on the router table with the fence. Then I change the bit to 3/4", and rout over the exiting slot to accommodate the washer head screw (kreg in my case).image.jpg I suppose I should have sanded thoses whiskers away, haha. Ok thanks for the close up pic that helps a lot! Will the wood, when it expands, pull those screws back and forth in there? Is that what the oversize hole is for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
estesbubba Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 Our snow is just starting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwacked Posted January 31, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 If it makes yall feel any better it was 65 yesterday Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpt life Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 Oh man, the picture is pure gold. They beat me^^^ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodger. Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 Ok thanks for the close up pic that helps a lot! Will the wood, when it expands, pull those screws back and forth in there? Is that what the oversize hole is for? The slot will allow the wood to move, and the screw will be stay put. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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