Rinnie Posted December 31, 2014 Report Share Posted December 31, 2014 I am refinishing an old table that I believe is made from pine. Can someone confirm that from the picture? It was poly'd years ago and waxed on occasion. I was just going to poly it again after sanding but now I am thinking of using General Finishes Dye on it. I need to purchase chairs for this table and have looked several places locally and online and I am finding a lot of Parawood products. I have read that it can be difficult to stain due to the tight grain however I did speak with one person that said he used a dye on his chairs and they turned out nice. Has anyone had any experience working with Parawood? I know I won't be able to get the chairs to match the table perfectly and at this point I am unsure if I will poly everything or try to stain. Any suggestions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rozaieski Posted January 1, 2015 Report Share Posted January 1, 2015 Yep. Looks like pine. Pine can be tough to color with dyes and stains because of the alternating rings of really soft early wood and really hard late wood. The different densities absorb dyes and stains differently and therefore pine tends to blotch when dyed or stained. In fact, in many cases, the light and dark areas will switch when stained or dyed. What I mean is that the in the natural pine board, the lighter wood is the soft early growth and the darker wood is the hard late growth. When you apply stain or dye, the soft (naturally lighter colored) early wood will absorb so much that it will become darker than the dense late wood, which absorbs very little dye. Pre stain conditioners can help, but only so much because they essentially partially seal the wood and prevent absorption of the dye. So you may not get the color you want using a conditioner. Commercial pine furniture is typically finished with lacquer that is colored with toners so that all the color is in the top coat. This prevents blotching and the light/dark switch completely, but it requires spray equipment and the know how to use toners. I typically finish pine by either leaving it natural color (which is how it looks best anyway in my opinion), or by painting it. I usually avoid stains and dyes with pine. If you really want to color yours, if suggest doing a test board first. Get a board of the same pine species and stain or dye it first and see if you can get it to look how you want. That way if you hate it you dont have to resand the whole table. Not sure from the pictures but it looks like you might have yellow pine. But it's really hard to tell from your pics. Yellow and white pine will finish differently, so make sure you test on the same species. Or do a section of the bottom of the table top before doing the whole thing. That way if you don't like how it turns out it's on the bottom out of sight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rinnie Posted January 1, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2015 Hi Bob, thank you for your advice. If I were to leave the table a natural color what products should I use? We do not have children and although this will be in the diningroom it won't be used everyday. I know a softer finish would be better because it won't crack if the pine is dented. Also, what series of grits of sand paper should I be using? I started with 40 - I know really rough - but it was tough to get the top coat of poly sanded off. I believe there were several layers. The rest of the table I am using a higher grit as the poly is coming off much easier. Lastly, there are several knots and cracks that have been filled and some of the wood putty used is light or almost white. I wasn't sure if or how to remove some of it enough to put a better matching color over it. Is there a way? Some of the cracks are pretty significant so I might have to use something better to fill? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhighlander Posted January 1, 2015 Report Share Posted January 1, 2015 If you can clean out the filler, clear epoxy is a good choice for filling knots, where the background is dark. Works on cracks as well, but may be more visible. If you want a darker color on the pine, I have had good results using white vinegar (about a pint) that has a pad of steel wool left in it for 24 hrs or so. The acid disolves iron oxide from the wool, and when applied to the wood will react with the tanins in the wood and cause darkening. The reaction varies by species, and since pine is relatively low in tanins, you may not see any change for a couple of days. Just flood the vinegar on with a rag, and leave it exposed to the air until it reaches a tone you are happy with. Sealing the wood seems to stop, or at least severely retard, the reaction. I have used this on pine to achieve anything from a light golden brown to a dark walnut-like tone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rozaieski Posted January 1, 2015 Report Share Posted January 1, 2015 If the white filler was not visible before you sanded the topcoat off, that would lead me to believe that you're not dealing with a poly top coat, but rather a toned lacquer like I mentioned above. Do you know how old the piece is and if the finish you are removing is original? The epoxy works well to fill cracks. You can leavi it clear or color it with sawdust fir a closer color match. You can even tint it black with India ink or charcoal dust and make the filled area a highlight. This sometimes works surprisingly well because it's near impossible to make the repair totally blend in unless you are skilled with faux graining and such. Even colored with sawdust, the epoxy will be very uniform in texture and color. A professional refinisher and restorer would add faux grain lines and markings to the repaired area with artist oils, shellac sticks, and other specialty products in order to make s repair blend in. If you're not comfortable with this, sometimes it actually work better aesthetically to call attention to it with something like a black epoxy rather than try to match the color of the surrounding wood. If you can't hide it, flaunt it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rinnie Posted January 1, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2015 I know the wood to make this table was from an old hotel that used to stand close to our house. My neighbor is the one who used the wood to make the table so it is a homemade table. I was told that he just put a clear coat on it but I'm not sure of the product that was used. The filler was definitely visible before I sanded off the topcoat. Some of it was a light brown before I sanded and now appears more white. The filler on the legs where the screws are is white. I'm just wondering if the tabletop just aged more than the legs since it would have been subject to more light and maybe the filler there just darkened too? Any suggestions on the brand of epoxy? I think I can be satisfied with using sawdust in the epoxy for color. I think I found the Minwax Antique Oil - http://www.amazon.com/Minwax-Antique-Oil-Finish-Pint/dp/B001005LLC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1420098093&sr=8-1&keywords=antique+oil#productDetails If I decided not to go with the Minwax Antique Oil what other brand of wiping varnish do you recommend? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhighlander Posted January 1, 2015 Report Share Posted January 1, 2015 For small stuff like cracks, knots, and nail holes, I find that Devcon 5-minute epoxy from my local home center works well, as it cures crystal clear. It cures too quickly for bigger jobs, but is relatively inexpensive. I prefer it packaged in seperate bottles over the dual-syringe package. Its really hard to keep the syringe tip clean between uses. For bigger epoxy jobs, lots of folks here like the West Systems product line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rozaieski Posted January 1, 2015 Report Share Posted January 1, 2015 There's lots of wiping varnishes available. Most products sold as "Tung Oil Finish", "Danish Oil", or if they just say wipe on with a rag are a wiping varnish. It's kind of funny because some of the "Tung Oil Finish" ones don't even contain any Tung oil. Unfortunately, there are really no rules around how these products are labeled. So it can get pretty confusing. But in the majority of cases, if you look at the application instructions and a product is intended to be wiped on and it dries within a few hours, it's a wiping varnish. Watco Danish Oil, Minwax Wipe On Poly, General Arm-R-Seal, Minwax Antique Oil, Formby's Tung Oil Finish, all are wiping varnish. The difference between them is the ratio of oil to resin (the solid varnish component) to thinner, as well as the type of oil and resin used. The greater the proportion of thinner, the easier it is to level the finish but the slower the build. Higher resin content leads to a harder drying finish. Higher oil content, a softer more flexible finish. Any of them will work. The Antique Oil product just happens to be my favorite of the bunch. You can also make your own wiping varnish by mixing a full strength varnish, boiled linseed oil and mineral spirits. Changing the proportions of the different parts will allow you to tailor how you want the finish to behave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rinnie Posted January 2, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 Thank you both for your help. If anyone has any comments on Parawood please let me know. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rinnie Posted January 4, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 4, 2015 When do I use the epoxy - should I wait until I get down to a 220 grit or can I do it at any time? Right now I have sanded everything at 80 grit and and 120 is next. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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