Is silver maple worth anything to a miller?


Thom Pirson

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I have this large silver maple in my backyard that I do love as a shade tree, but what I don't love is the thought of paying for a new pool and garage for my neighbor...

 

I know it isn't as hard a wood as hard maple, but I have seen projects done with it. Is silver maple something that any mill would be interested it? I'll have to get some measurements, but for context, the fence is about 6' tall. The smallest lead (far left) is roughly 18-20" and they get much larger than that. There's a guy in my area that has a portable mill setup, but I don't know if he's setup to take trees down. Will probably give him a call today.

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Silver maple is relatively worthless.  It's softer than most of the typical soft maple species you see available for sale at hardwood dealers, and you typically won't find it at most reputable dealers since it is such lousy lumber.  You can often find it at mills though.  I wouldn't expect it to be worth much, if anything.  And I personally wouldn't want to build anything with it...maybe for test cuts if I was given a stack.  It is truly soft wood...barely harder than poplar.

 

And FYI, I'm not sure what the laws are in NY, but here in MO, if my tree falls onto my neighbor's property, I'm not responsible to pay for the damage...he is.  It may sound stupid but it's true.  It's considered an act of God and on what property the tree is rooted is considered irrelevant.  When I worked for a tree removal company in my younger days, we had a scenario where an enormous cottonwood had fallen across five different properties.  There were four insurance companies involved...the fifth homeowner was apparently uninsured or otherwise unable to pay for the removal, and the mess in his yard was left while the rest was cleaned up.  The owner of the property on which the tree was rooted was only responsible for the work done in his yard, which was really only a little section of trunk and the stump.

 

So anyway, you may want to check your laws before you spend the money to have a tree taken down for your neighbor's sake. :)

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In most markets, probably not for a soft maple.   Millers are generally very leery of backyard trees, and a reasonably common tree is not likely to make them interested in taking on that risk, and then find a buyer for whatever they yield.   On the other hand, if you wanted the lumber, it might end up being quite a cheap supply, the additional cost of  a day or so of milling work and the risk of replacing any blades damaged by metal intrusions.

 

I have exactly the same situation, and I find myself thinking I might just know where I can find a massive slab to make a traditional Roubo-style bench.

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You might want to contact an arborist just for an assessment of the tree.  Just a quick glance at the photo and I can tell you that it'll probably have to come down, based on the overgrown co-dominant stems at around 8'  For as tight as those branch unions are, they're guaranteed to have included bark and probably some rot at the union.  With the angles at play on those branches, it might actually split away from the fence...

 

You haven't seen any bracket fungi or conks on it have you? If there aren't, you could probably get a nice workbench top out of it!

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I see nothing atypical about the growth of that tree...looks like every other disheveled silver maple I've ever seen.  But they are very soft trees and the branches will snap if someone rips a good fart near one.  I would have it heavily pruned (NOT topped!) to take some of the weight off of the branches and let the wind blow through without resistance, and call it good.  Silver maples aren't exactly beautiful, but I'd rather keep it and the shade that it provides unless I absolutely HAD to remove it.  Nothing worse than a treeless, sunny, HOT backyard.  At least IMO.  I have an enormous white oak in my backyard that IS dying, and it really needs to come out...but I'm gonna hate to see it go.  Procrastinating as long as possible...

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Eric - This tree has sort of been an on going conversation between myself and my neighbor. We're friendly so I wouldn't feel right pushing it off until it damages his garage. Also, directly behind his garage, on the other side of the fence is another garage, and next to that is an above ground pool. So depending on the angle, that's 3 properties...If the other have of the tree drops, it may hit my garage. All of the fencing is my property, so anyway it goes I'm in for new fencing. I don't know what the actual liability is in NY, but speaking to a neighbor across the street who just had a big tree taken down in front of the house. Apparently if it breaks and there is proof you did work on the tree, (Cabling, heavy pruning, removing large leads, etc) then it's the owner's problem. Basically, because you knew it was was a problem, I guess? As for the mangled look of the tree, about 10 years ago there was a surprise snow storm in early October, news calls it the October Surprise, (I prefer OcTimber) that dropped heavy wet snow before the trees had started dropping leaves. Lots and lots of trees were lost and severely damaged across western New York, things have filled out, but if you look at a lot of the big old trees across the area, they still look pretty gnarly and messy.

 

Arminius - I had the same thought, if I had a decent place to store the wood (and partly the patience to wait), I would probably do just that. But...I do have that open space on the garage wall...

 

RPCV - I had an arborist quote on trimming and and cabling the leads, early in the summer. But he was way out of my budget. Actually I've had a hard time getting folks out to look at it. From May to August, I called 12 different arborists, trimmers, landscapers, hell I even called the guy in the local classified ads. Left lots of messages, spoke to owners and assistants, and only ONE guy came out to actually look at the tree. Apparently, business is good... There is a wound/split/whatever, but the arborist said he couldn't estimate how deep it went. Fall tomorrow or in 10 years kind of answer.

 

Mike - Understood, I wasn't thinking of charging for it. If it was worth it to someone, "free" to a good home. Maybe keep/buy back a couple pieces. As for the milling, the one guy I know has a portable mill that he will bring to a site. Though I'm sure "site" is usually a lot bigger than my backyard.

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This is a oak tree in front of my house, the pic was taken before the fire. We had an ice storm several years ago that caused that angled branch that looks out of place. I got a couple estimates to have the tree cleaned up and had a arborist from a local university come and look at it, the cheap bid was 5500.00 to just clean it up. The insurance would not pay to clean it up and when I ask "what if" his reply was "I'll be writing a bigger check" The arborist said to leave it alone it was 300 years old and would out live us all, I hope he is right, I built the new house in the same spot.

 

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I worked as an arborist for a number of years, including running my own company for some of that time. While the "Act of God" scenario is generally true, those who have indicated that a court can find you liable in some cases are correct, depending on laws in your state of course. As for Silver Maples, they are considered weeds among shade trees. Contractors required to plant trees in new developments often plant them because they are one of the cheapest options, or homeowners often do so because they grow fast. But the fast growing tree species that are not problem-prone are few and far between. Silver Maples are not only weak-wooded, but they usually have a multiple trunk, spindly growth form, with very acute angles of attachment between trunks and between branches. This leads to high odds of storm damage. I wouldn't have one anywhere near anything I valued. The fact that it has lasted this long only means the odds of something happening are increasing, as age, reduced vigor, and the associated problem catch up to it. One of the reasons you have had a hard time getting arborists to come look at it might be the fact that only a minority of arborists practice tree surgery (Bracing, cabling, etc) anymore. Most either don't have the skills or would simply rather deal with the more lucrative pruning and removals. If you don't want to remove the tree I would definitely have it pruned to decrease wind resistance. But, as Eric said, do not let yourself be talked into having it topped. This evetually results in a tree more dangerous than if left alone. This is an archaic practice that is only justified for utility line clearance, where no other choice exists. A reputable arborist will not do it, even if you ask them to. Pollarding is similar to topping, but done in different cases than yours. Lastly, a tree that size will be expensive to remove and you might just weigh the costs of repairing what it could damage against the cost of removal. Good luck!

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Actually I've had a hard time getting folks out to look at it. From May to August, I called 12 different arborists, trimmers, landscapers, hell I even called the guy in the local classified ads. Left lots of messages, spoke to owners and assistants, and only ONE guy came out to actually look at the tree. Apparently, business is good...

 

This!   We had a helluva time getting any kind of response from arborists/landscapers/etc when we moved last June.   The landscaping all around our house is nice (prev owners spent over 75K on it initially) but woefully under-maintained in recent years.   We called all the decently-rated landscapers on Angie's List and left messages....maybe ~2-3 call backs just to say they are booked until next spring.   We took to just writing down every number on every landscaping truck we saw to call but more of the same.   Apparently everyone in the Chicago NW burbs loves their landscaping but hates doing any of the work...

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I remember one customer telling me, after I gave him the estimate, that he would have given me the job regardless of the cost, just because I not only showed up when I said i would, but I was the only one to show up! I haven't had as bad luck as that with contractors but there must be quite a few like that out there. Gotta wonder how they stay in business. 

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This!   We had a helluva time getting any kind of response from arborists/landscapers/etc when we moved last June.   The landscaping all around our house is nice (prev owners spent over 75K on it initially) but woefully under-maintained in recent years.   We called all the decently-rated landscapers on Angie's List and left messages....maybe ~2-3 call backs just to say they are booked until next spring.   We took to just writing down every number on every landscaping truck we saw to call but more of the same.   Apparently everyone in the Chicago NW burbs loves their landscaping but hates doing any of the work...

Hahaha, I'm glad that it's not just me...I did the same this past summer. On the drive to work, I would write down the name and number of every truck I came across at a light. Amazing how many companies there are.

 

I had good luck getting a tree company that was already doing work for a neighbor to remove my single tree while they already had all the equipment onsite. All you can do is keep your eyes open and ask !

Did the same, that's the one I still need to call. I came home to find their tree was already cleaned up and gone, but I got the name and number of the guy. Sort of a last chance...

 

I worked as an arborist for a number of years, including running my own company for some of that time. While the "Act of God" scenario is generally true, those who have indicated that a court can find you liable in some cases are correct, depending on laws in your state of course. As for Silver Maples, they are considered weeds among shade trees. Contractors required to plant trees in new developments often plant them because they are one of the cheapest options, or homeowners often do so because they grow fast. But the fast growing tree species that are not problem-prone are few and far between. Silver Maples are not only weak-wooded, but they usually have a multiple trunk, spindly growth form, with very acute angles of attachment between trunks and between branches. This leads to high odds of storm damage. I wouldn't have one anywhere near anything I valued. The fact that it has lasted this long only means the odds of something happening are increasing, as age, reduced vigor, and the associated problem catch up to it. One of the reasons you have had a hard time getting arborists to come look at it might be the fact that only a minority of arborists practice tree surgery (Bracing, cabling, etc) anymore. Most either don't have the skills or would simply rather deal with the more lucrative pruning and removals. If you don't want to remove the tree I would definitely have it pruned to decrease wind resistance. But, as Eric said, do not let yourself be talked into having it topped. This evetually results in a tree more dangerous than if left alone. This is an archaic practice that is only justified for utility line clearance, where no other choice exists. A reputable arborist will not do it, even if you ask them to. Pollarding is similar to topping, but done in different cases than yours. Lastly, a tree that size will be expensive to remove and you might just weigh the costs of repairing what it could damage against the cost of removal. Good luck!

 

That's why I've been trying to be proactive in getting this removed. At first I thought maybe just remove a few leads, but I think that would mostly be a bandage on a broken bone. My whole neighborhood is mostly Silver Maples. They are all around the same age as the houses (mines 90 this year), so someone made a good buck off a developer/village planner back then. As far as my searching has turned up, there are only two companies in my area that have certified arborists at any level. The rest are all trimming/removal services if you want to consider that as a difference. Regardless, I'm past the point of maintaining this tree and want to get it removed. A couple months ago, I was griping with the neighbor about the lack of response I've gotten, and he said he would check with the crews that do the work for the village, (he's a village trustee) to see if they would swing by and give a price while they were in the area, no word back about that though either.

 

I remember one customer telling me, after I gave him the estimate, that he would have given me the job regardless of the cost, just because I not only showed up when I said i would, but I was the only one to show up! I haven't had as bad luck as that with contractors but there must be quite a few like that out there. Gotta wonder how they stay in business. 

Exactly!

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We don't have that problem here. We had a giant fir taken down, I think it only took a day or two before they came out. $300 and everything that could go in the shredder left with them. The main trunk went away the next day, they send out a firewood guy to get the rest. We have Urban Hardwoods that will take anything with wood value like a big maple or walnut. The kid shimmied up the tree and took it down real quick and the guys on the ground shredded it as fast as he dropped it.

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  • 4 years later...
On 1/26/2015 at 12:40 PM, JerseyG1960 said:

As for Silver Maples, they are considered weeds among shade trees.

I hope someone can help me here. I have been sued by my neighbors for cutting the two silver maple trees, approx 20 ft high which were a big threat to my house, part of trees were in neighbors air space. Can someone help me evaluate the dollar value of silver maple trees please. Thanks so much. 

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I had a 70 year old monster silver maple in my back yard many years ago.  I one point I had it cabled and then, in the middle of winter the wind took half of it.  Laid it down across 4 back yards. Did not hit any house or garages but scared the shit of of my neighbor's golden retreiver.  Each of our insurance companies paid for  each of our fence damages.

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