Brendon_t Posted January 30, 2015 Report Share Posted January 30, 2015 So tomorrow the door that has taken up 7'x3' of my shop floor real estate is getting hung. I have looked at the door frame that is there already and it looks a little beat up. It is currently metal, and has quite a few things in it that I don't believe I will be able to pop out so I am considering building a new frame for the door on the fly. I checked Home Depot and they do have a door frame kit made of some wheat pine but the dimensions do not work because the door is so darn wide. Anyone who has built a door frame feel free to pipe in. What did you learn, what mistakes did you make that I should avoid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted January 30, 2015 Report Share Posted January 30, 2015 Just don't forget your back out cuts and of course the slot for weather strip if it's a exterior door. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjeff70 Posted January 30, 2015 Report Share Posted January 30, 2015 How about some pics? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted January 30, 2015 Report Share Posted January 30, 2015 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjeff70 Posted January 30, 2015 Report Share Posted January 30, 2015 Sorry about that Particle, we posted at the same time. I meant Brendon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdwerker Posted January 30, 2015 Report Share Posted January 30, 2015 Pictures and details would help. Normal doors are 80" tall. Is this an exterior or interior door? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom King Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 Hundreds. I built new houses for 33 years, and never used a prehung door. I have it down to a science, complete with dedicated routers and my own designed jigs for each type of mortise. If it's protected, I'd use 5/4 lumber, and around here it would be Yellow Pine. Don't try to run the stops as part of the jamb. Do run a rabbet for whatever weatherstripping you will use in the stop before you install it. Hang the door, and then fit the stops. There are just too many details to type it all out, but many more details are needed on this particular project. The only thing I would use one of those door frame kits for is firewood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brendon_t Posted January 31, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 I see I just posted one of the old not nearly enough information threads. The new door is 42"x 78.5" built to the exact dimensions of the old door. This is an exterior door mostly protected. It hands under an eve that protects it from all but extreme sideways rain (in my best bubba voice) Does the back of the frame need to have those rebates in them that pb's pic shows? I was thinking that if I do end up replacing, I would poplar since it is a harder wood than the Douglas fir we get around here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpt life Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 If you really want to mill the jamb, go for it. If you want to build the door and move on, any millwork shop will carry what PB posted. I can get that at every contractor supply within fifty miles. That is around 75 businesses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brendon_t Posted January 31, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 Hundreds. I built new houses for 33 years, and never used a prehung door. I have it down to a science, complete with dedicated routers and my own designed jigs for each type of mortise. If it's protected, I'd use 5/4 lumber, and around here it would be Yellow Pine. Don't try to run the stops as part of the jamb. Do run a rabbet for whatever weatherstripping you will use in the stop before you install it. Hang the door, and then fit the stops. There are just too many details to type it all out, but many more details are needed on this particular project. The only thing I would use one of those door frame kits for is firewood. very good call on placing the stops after everything is set. What mortises are there to cut beSides the one for a dead bolt throw and the other for the handle set? And I guess the relief for the hinges. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom King Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 I make jambs to fit the door, and not trim the door afterwards. I add 1/8 for the hinge side, and 3/16" for the lock side. In other words, for a three foot door, the opening is 36-5/16" wide. When setting the jamb, cut a piece of scrap the opening width. Place it at the bottom to keep the jambs from coming in too much. Wedge and nail the rest of it in place using a long level. I have a place I set the jointer fence to put ever so slightly a bevel on the jamb edges, so casing can fit tight even with a little wall irregularity. Yes, hinges too. If the wall if perfectly plumb it's easy. If anything is out of plumb, make sure the hinges are plumb so the door will hang stationary in place at any point in it's swing. That's one reason to set the stops last. This is not so much of a problem on a new building, but fairly common on an old one. The casing will cover the outside joint between the jamb and stop anyway. Mount the lockset and strike so you can shut the door without the stops on. Set the head stop first. Put a little more pressure on the lock end than the hinge end. After the head stop, it doesn't matter which of the long ones you put on next. Don't fit the hinge side so tight that the door will drag shutting it, but you want the weatherstripping to seal too. On the lock stop, start at the top and set that to match the head stop you've already set. Give just a little relief right outside the lock. You want the door to shut without having to use a lot of force, but still seal tightly. Pop a nail in the bottom of the lock stop with a little pressure against the door like the top of that piece. Try the door to see that it shuts to suit you. If it doesn't, bump the lock stop one way or the other with the three nails in it. Once you have it like you want, put the rest of the nails in. The door should shut with a single "kerchunk". Once you have the stops like you want them, block plane down the parts that stick out past the jamb on the outside edge. Interior doors are done much the same way, and shut with a single noise, and no moving or rattling. I've never cut those reliefs in the back of a jamb. Select the faces of the jambs so the rings in the wood will send a bending finish nail behind the jamb, and not out a face. I rabbet the tops of the jamb sides. My doors all closing perfectly with no rattling was one of the selling points of the houses I built. I never kept one for longer than two weeks once I put a price on it. We could make and hang all the doors in the house in a day with my setup, had a much better product, and actually saved money. In fact, I can go in houses I built in 1973 and 4, and the doors all still close with a single kerchunk, and don't rattle. I used ball bearing hinges for exterior doors. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 The blackouts are there to prevent warping after hanging and during machining. Stops should be milled into casing for all in swing exterior doors for safety. Doors over 1 3/8 should have a 3 degree bevel on the door or the casing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brendon_t Posted January 31, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 Thanks pb, that makes sense I suppose. I actually did slightly relieve some material with my blockplane from the corner that will be swinging into the jamb opposite the hinges Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 There is actually more to doors than the woodworking. There is a reason planted stops don't meet code on exterior doors. The blackouts are also required to prevent seal breakage to meet energy codes. A bunch of technobabble goes into manufacturing doors properly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdwerker Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 I think with plenty of caulk and fasteners applied stops would be fine for a single homemade door. Code is to prevent shoddy manufactured practices and cheap builders from cutting corners. Only a slight concern if the job is permitted and being inspected. Wouldn't be surprised if there was an allowance for custom doors. A healthy bead of adhesive caulk under the stops and nails or screws every 6 to 8" should be plenty. Hinge edge of a door frame needs to be perfectly plumb (level )in both directions , regardless of the wall not being plumb. I agree w Tom on all points ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brendon_t Posted January 31, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 Ooh believe me, I did months of study before even getting wood. I became too paralyzed by analysis that I about talked myself out of making it but eventually, I just had to grab the boys and make dust fly. There are some things I believe I did well. There are others that I would definitely change if doing it again. I learned so very much in this project that I will apply going forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 Making a proper casing is very easy on a table saw the only special tool is a thin kerf blade for the seal slot. Its 10 minute job to just do it right. It's more work to to cut corners than it is to make a proper casing. Most contractors that are using slabs just do them onsite with little jobsite tablesaws. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coop Posted February 1, 2015 Report Share Posted February 1, 2015 "Kerchunk" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brendon_t Posted February 1, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2015 Well. . I figured out today that the people who installed the first oversized door 30 years ago did not expand the actual opening for the door. They used a stamped steel door frame. .. This made things very interesting when we removed the old junk rusted dented frame, the door that I built to match the old door will not fit with a standard 3/4" frame installed in the opening. We're currently feeling extremely defeated. Will be giving it another go tomorrow. Any ideas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdwerker Posted February 1, 2015 Report Share Posted February 1, 2015 Take 1/2 to 3/4 off both sides of the door? I hope the stiles are wide enough ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brendon_t Posted February 1, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2015 The stiles are 4.5" wide on a 42" wide door. I think their already on the narrow side. The holes are already bored for the lock sets so I can't take any off of one side. My head is telling me to hand plane the 2x4 down flat and send the jamb I made through the planer face down and thin the jamb down knowing none of the real strength is coming from the jam, it's the3 sandwiched 2x4's the hinges are lagging into Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpt life Posted February 1, 2015 Report Share Posted February 1, 2015 It depends, literally. Stamped steel cannot support a door on its own. It is usually wrapped around an extra jack stud in stick framing. You may need to excavate some drywall to see how the header is supported, but you may be able to remove the stud the steel jamb caps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted February 1, 2015 Report Share Posted February 1, 2015 Agreed there should be an extra stud. Is this an ADA or high wind zone door? You should be able to feel behind the wall board with a cut coat hanger or drill into the stud to get a look. The casing and door is rated for wind zones. If it's a high pressure door you may need to rethink your door. Again more to doors than most realize. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brendon_t Posted February 1, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2015 I fingered back enough drywall to see there are 3 studs on the hinge side. I don't know about high wind zone. We're in southern California, definitely not prone to high wind conditions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted February 1, 2015 Report Share Posted February 1, 2015 I fingered back enough drywall to see there are 3 studs on the hinge side. I don't know about high wind zone. We're in southern California, definitely not prone to high wind conditions CA is not in a wind zone its in a EQ zone. Make sure the second stud is under the header before removing the stud closest to the rough opening. It won't meet code on anything wider than a 36 but will if casing is 1.75 on the stop side of 1 3/8 door with solid jamb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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