Low Angle vs Standard Planes


Tom Cancelleri

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I'm looking at getting some planes, Number 7 Jointing plane, maybe a new smoothing plane.

 

Are there pros and cons to going with all low angle stuff? I see them as way more adjustable and can either hog off material quickly, as well as take a really fine cut by adjusting the mouth. Why would one want to go with a standard over a low angle?

 

Also, it seems low angle planes are a fair bit cheaper in terms of price. My guess is that there's less metal with the lack of a giant frog on the plane, as well as a shorter iron. 

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I would NOT get a low angle jointer.

 

Here's why....  If you're using a jointer, you're often working on a long, narrow, edge.  The chances of grain reversals is high on a long edge.   A high angle plane can often be used against the grain, you can joint and ignore grain direction.  One of the downsides of a high angle plane is that it's harder to push through a cut.  A narrow edge has less to cut, making the harder to push angle less important.

 

In my experience, a low angle plane will rip the crap out of a grain reversal, leaving you with a crappy edge.

 

Low angle planes are great on end grain.  Almost everything else, including figured wood, is better planed with a York pitch, or higher edge angle, even if it's more work.

 

That said...  Don't confuse bevel-up with low angle.  A bevel-up plane can easily be configured with a high angle.  Pros:  Low CG, no chip breaker, and easy to change the cutting angle.   Cons:   It's harder to keep the back of the iron flat, which can require more work to sharpen well.

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The advantages of LA planes end at their versatility (having multiple blades) and their slightly lower price.  They are good at many things but great at few (aside from end grain)...at least not as great as their bevel down cousins.  Their lack of mass is what turns me off the most, and while buying one plane plus extra blades is certainly a cheaper alternative to having multiple one-trick-ponies for many needs, I find it annoying to swap out blades when I wanna get to planing instead of fiddling around with adjustments.  Barry mentioned the end grain...that's why I have a #62 and a LA block.  For every other need, I reach for a bench plane or a standard angle block.  Joinery planes not withstanding.  I think a #62 is a good starter plane, a good plane for someone on a budget, or for someone who doesn't use a plane very often.  But I'd rather have an arsenal of planes dedicated to narrower ranges of techniques.  YMMV...I'm not a hardcore knuckle-dragger...just my opinion.

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I am a big fan of bevel up planes. I have a few, including the bu jointer from veritas. It's an incredible plane. I also have the la Jack, which is also bevel up. Its a shop workhorse.

I find the bevel up planes great for easy pitch changes, just pop out the blade and pop in a new one for a York pitch or higher. With a bd plane, you need to remove the frog and reset.

My smoother is bevel down, but I am gonna get a bu smoother as well. I tried one at LV the other day, and I really like it.

My block plane is la, and it's great too.

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Both are great, I like BD but nothing wrong with a BU. It's just knowing how to get the best out of each type.

 

On a BU you control surface finish with the angle you hone the iron. Hone low for end grain, hone higher for long grain. Hone higher still if the grain hates you and also keep a tight mouth.

 

A BD nearly always has a cap iron, if the grain is troublesome set it close to the cutting edge.

 

If you want to go deep in to BU look no further than Derek's site http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolReviews/The%20Veritas%20Lee%20Valley%20Bevel%20Up%20Jointer.html

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Get out and use one. There is a lot of preference up there ^ that is only preference and not science. Mass is preference or woodies would not be effective. Tearout on reversing grain can be eliminated with a higher grind. Once you do this, there is no difference in the physics of the cut. So take all of these comments as valid preferences that you may or may not choose to align yourself with.

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My beef with the BUs is they are too hard too adjust depth of cut. Plus, a lack of mass. and I prefer the higher CG of the BD. 

 

I have a 62LN as my only Jack plane. It is very easy to pop out the blade to sharpen and easy to open the mouth wide open to take the really deep cuts. 

 

I think I am going to sell the 62 and get a No. 5...or maybe I'll get the 5, keep the 62 and use it more like a scrub.

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I'm looking at getting some planes, Number 7 Jointing plane, maybe a new smoothing plane.

 

Are there pros and cons to going with all low angle stuff? I see them as way more adjustable and can either hog off material quickly, as well as take a really fine cut by adjusting the mouth. Why would one want to go with a standard over a low angle?

 

Also, it seems low angle planes are a fair bit cheaper in terms of price. My guess is that there's less metal with the lack of a giant frog on the plane, as well as a shorter iron. 

 

If you had asked this question 3 years ago (pre-chipbreaker use), I would have stated categorically that a BU Jointer, such as those from LV or LN, was the way to go because it could handle interlocked grain (the majority of the wood I use) better than a Stanley #7, which has a fixed and lower cutting angle (45 degrees). Of course, LN do offer their #7 bevel down jointer with a high angle frog, however I am not mad about metal BD planes with high cutting angles as they are so much harder to push than a BU plane of the same cutting angle. 

 

Recently, I reviewed the new LV Custom Bevel Down #7 in both high and low angle frog modalities. There is a review on my website, which I am not permitted to link to here, but Graham linked to it in another thread. Keep in mind that the wood I used in the review tested the limits of the planes and may not be approached by you in your woodwork. 

 

What I noted was that it was possible to achieve superb results using a 40 degree frog as long as the chipbreaker was part of the equation. This is a setup that is easer to push than the 50 degree frog. 

 

For all this, my vote still goes to the LV BU Jointer with a 40 degree blade (=52 degree included/cutting angle) because the BU plane just is easier to use, offers more feedback, and provides as good a result. Note, however, that this is a reflection of the feedback type that I prefer - which may be different to that of another. I have a few woodies as well, and they work very well, but I keep returning to the metal planes for jointing. I like how low they sit on the wood and how much more control they provide. 

 

3-jointers_zps6f72f8a5.jpg

 

 

Regards from Perth

 

Derek

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  • 1 month later...

Just joined here and saw your post...I am over in E. Loudoun.  You could tryout what I have although I am far from expert here.

 

I have a LA jack from LN I got within the last year from a guy on sawmill creek.  It was nicest plane I own but that is not saving much. Very easy to set depth and handles figure very well.  I have some older Stanleys 2 #7s too

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==>You could tryout what I have although I am far from expert here

Brings-up a good point…

 

For those looking to compare tool-A vs tool-B, an excellent resource is your local woodworking club/association/etc… They are everywhere… Odds are, someone has the tool you’re interested in… I’d look-up your local club, and make a few calls… I’ve found woodworkers to be very accommodating…

 

As 4 BU-v-BD… There must be dozens of threads on this – I know I’ve contributed to a few in my time…If you’re new to hand planes, BU are easier to setup and get started… Less to go wrong… BD’s take more experience to make them sing, but Bailey-style planes can be adjusted on the fly – and that’s huge… I’ve got both, but I’ve got to say – as I gain experience, I’m using bailey-style BDs and wood-body planes more and more… I keep threatening to sell my BU-Jack, but I just can’t seem to make it happen… My favorite BU plane is the LN-Smoother – but surprise, it has a Bailey-style adjuster..

 

For a Jointer, it’s a tough call… There are a couple of very experienced craftsman that I respect who swear by the BU #7, but I think the BD #7 or a wood-body jointer is the way to go… I had a LN BU #7 and it’s a nice plane… After I got a wood-body jointer, I stopped using the LN and sold it…

 

I wouldn’t just read internet posts… Get your hands on a couple of planes and try them yourself… It’s not so much one design over another – it’s which plane feels best in your hands…

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I have no missing places for a plane that can do any job, on any grain.  The only bevel up planes I have ever owned over the four decades that I've been using planes, that I can think of, are a couple of block planes, and a couple of shoulder planes.  I don't have any other job that I would need one for.  The only modern era plane I own is a LV shooting plane.  I have some Record planes that might have been made after LN made their first plane, but all the others are older.

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==> bevel up planes I have ever owned over the four decades
That’s the point, four decades… I’m thinking along the lines of someone new to planes…

 

There’s a place for BU in the newbie arsenal --- but --- once the newbie gets experience, then the BD and/or woodie may (probably?) become a better fit… The nice thing about the LN for a newbie, he/she can sell it two years later and get 90% of the original price – so it’s more like renting the BU while you build experience… At least that’s how I look at it…

 

 

BTW: For those who come later – Don’t obsess at getting the ‘perfect’ tool on day-one of your woodworking adventure… Don’t worry, you won’t… You can read the internet all you want, but it doesn’t mean jack (think I made a joke)… As you gain experience, the odds are that your tools will evolve… The best advice is to get a very few high-quality tools that feel good in your hands ---- so when your tools change, you can sell what you’ve got and get-back what you’ve paid-in…

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  • 3 months later...

I know I saw on another post which one u ended up getting, but which was it. Fixing to get a #7 and on the fence between the BD and BU. I keep leaning toward BD.

 

I wound up buying the Veritas LA Smoother, it's a great plane. I've used it a bunch over the last week. I also bought the bevel up jointer, I know everyone says no no no to the bevel up jointer, however with the blade angle options, a 38* blade or a 50* blade you can get a 50* or 62* cutting angle. I find it to be pretty easy to use and adjust. I very much prefer the lower center of gravity of the BU planes. I also find them easier to tune and they are less finicky. This may not be the case for some, but in my case it works for me. At some point I'm sure I'll buy more bevel down planes. For now I have a BD Jack and a BD #4 smoother. 

 

 

Just joined here and saw your post...I am over in E. Loudoun.  You could tryout what I have although I am far from expert here.

 

I have a LA jack from LN I got within the last year from a guy on sawmill creek.  It was nicest plane I own but that is not saving much. Very easy to set depth and handles figure very well.  I have some older Stanleys 2 #7s too

 

I don't know how I just saw all these posts. I'm in Leesburg, always good to know local woodworkers. Very nice of you to offer up to check out your planes. 

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thank your for taking the time to reply. I don't have a power jointer and there are a couple of items higher on priority list before that ever happens. The extra mass and adjustability of the Veritas has me leaning to the BD. I have permission so something will get ordered today. :} Ought to buy the band saw I want. give an inch type of thing. thanks again

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I'm looking at getting some planes, Number 7 Jointing plane, maybe a new smoothing plane.

 

Are there pros and cons to going with all low angle stuff? I see them as way more adjustable and can either hog off material quickly, as well as take a really fine cut by adjusting the mouth. Why would one want to go with a standard over a low angle?

 

Also, it seems low angle planes are a fair bit cheaper in terms of price. My guess is that there's less metal with the lack of a giant frog on the plane, as well as a shorter iron. 

 

On a day in and day out basis you won't get better all around performance than that offered by bevel down planes with the chipbreaker set properly for the task at hand.  There seems to me to be little reason to mix 'feels' by owning some of each.  You really only need three bench planes - a jointer, jack, and smoother.  A vintage wooden jack makes a nice addition since it functions to remove bulk material as fast or faster than a scrub plane, but with the added benefit of length of sole and a chipbreaker to limit gross blowout when planing aggressively.

 

There is no need to overcomplicate, or overspend, on bench planes. 

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