Help Identifying "Mystery Wood"


davewyo

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I know it's sort of a craps shoot, but I wonder if anyone recognizes this type of wood.

 

I was camping in Southeastern Utah when I found an interesting piece of firewood left beside a fire ring in North Wash, just north of Lake Powell, near Hite Marina.

It was mixed in with a few other sticks of cottonwood, which is the usual lumber cut/sold for firewood in the desert southwest (along with pinon pine and juniper).

There are also a lot of invasive "Russian Olive" and "Tamarisk" (Salt Cedar) which grow along stream banks in the area, but the bark doesn't look like either.

It could have come from the Navaho Nation in northern Arizona or somebody may have brought it from Salt Lake City,  or Denver, or anywhere in the region I suppose.

 

What caught my eye was the interesting square "ray flecks".

http://IMAG0621_zpsa3f59102.jpg

 

http://IMAG0622_zps96ca90f0.jpg

 

It had bark which was "chunky" and divided into rectangles.

 

http://IMAG0623_zpscaa05993.jpg

 

I though it could be a fruit tree, just because those are the other kind of trees cultivated in the area.

 

I cut it up.

http://IMAG0624_zps23bb25f8.jpg

 

...and book matched what I got.

 

http://IMAG0629_zps86689420.jpg

 

Any help with identification is appreciated.

Dave

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I'm stumped as well but I agree with Steve...the way the med rays look reminds me of something in the oak family.  But the bark and cambium throw me off.  Fairly confident it's not sycamore.

 

I'm not very familiar with some of those western tree species.  You should ask someone local to that area.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Thanks C.

You're right. I wasn't keying in on the origin of Silky Oak.

 

So...it could be Gambel Oak.
I'm heading down to the southeastern Utah desert on Monday and I will check out some mature trees in an oak grove to see if they have that distinctive cambium layer, bark, etc.

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  • 3 weeks later...

I'm now convinced that my little sample of oak-like "lumber" from a piece of firewood isn't Gambel Oak.

I checked out a grove about a week ago and the bark in the average stand of large Gambel Oak is noticeably different from the firewood I found.

http://IMG_0880_zpssrbokdao.jpg

Additionally, it doesn't have the distinctive cambium layer of the firewood.

 

The wood remains an attractive mystery.

 

D

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looks kinda oak ish to me. Mesquite is a kind of oak (I think). Interesting grain pattern . I have seen pockets like that in oak before from improper drying, like anyone really worried about how the firewood got dried !

 

Does look oaky, probably not mesquite - bark is all wrong.  I feel like the honeycombing under the bark should help with ID.

 

Mesquite is a grouping of species the Prosopis genus of the Fabaceae (the legumes/beans) family,  Oaks are genus Quercus in the Fagaceae family (Beeches and Oaks).  Not related, but I bet they'd make beautiful babies!

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  • 2 weeks later...

I remember seeing some kind of white oak once that had similar flakes as I recall, but I wouldn't have guess oak at first because it seems unusual for oak. I can't find any oak on my site like it. My best guess is silky oak, but I wouldn't put money on that without seeing the end grain details.

 

A good detail end grain shot will tell the tail most likely but you'll have to clean it up (fine sanding) way more than what's shown here so far (on the end grain)

 

wdworker, mesquite is totally unrelated to oak and what's shown here doesn't look anything like any mesquite I've ever seen.

 

EDIT: I see RPCV_Woodworker already pointed out oak/mesquite differences.

 

I'm surprised that the honeycombed bark didn't jump right out at one of our sawyers. Seems like something unique, but it's a tree thing and I don't know squat about trees. I have HEARD (but am not fully convinced) that they are the source of all those nifty planks I see in lumber yards and exotic wood stores.

 

and by the way, silky oak, although native to Australia, grows in Florida and California so Utah doesn't seem impossible, just unlikely, as C Shaffer said.

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post-9382-0-05571800-1427486303_thumb.jp

To Phinds comment, the heartwood near this oak crotch does indeed have some similar characteristics. I wonder where in Utah this tree grew. Is this scrub desert? Do trees exhibit unusual characteristics due to annual droubt or fire conditions? These are things I do not see in my region of the U.S. and so lack any knowledge.

Edit: Actually, this figure is on the down and compressed side of this branch. Is this more a characteristic of high wind stress?

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A good detail end grain shot will tell the tail most likely but you'll have to clean it up (fine sanding) way more than what's shown here so far (on the end grain)

 

 

I appreciate your opinion.

I will certainly sand some of the end grain and take a macro shot asap.

Probably tomorrow.

Right now I am spraying lacquer and any dust raising in the shop is strictly forbidden.

Unfortunately there are only small scraps left over after I sliced it up.

 

 

attachicon.gifimage.jpg

To Phinds comment, the heartwood near this oak crotch does indeed have some similar characteristics. I wonder where in Utah this tree grew. Is this scrub desert? Do trees exhibit unusual characteristics due to annual droubt or fire conditions? These are things I do not see in my region of the U.S. and so lack any knowledge.

Edit: Actually, this figure is on the down and compressed side of this branch. Is this more a characteristic of high wind stress?

Yes the grain in your photo does look similar.

 

(Very)Generally speaking there are two broad zones in southeastern Utah; a higher altitude forest zone with Ponderosa Pine with maybe some Douglas Fir and Aspen, and then a lower zone with Pinon Pine and Juniper, with Cottonwood and Gambel Oak in the wetter situations.

Most, if not all trees, in the area (Sonoran Desert) are subject to all kinds of stresses like wind, drought, poor soil, and fire.

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attachicon.gifimage.jpg

To Phinds comment, the heartwood near this oak crotch does indeed have some similar characteristics. I wonder where in Utah this tree grew. Is this scrub desert? Do trees exhibit unusual characteristics due to annual droubt or fire conditions? These are things I do not see in my region of the U.S. and so lack any knowledge.

Edit: Actually, this figure is on the down and compressed side of this branch. Is this more a characteristic of high wind stress?

I do see the similarity but I think it's not close enough to to suggest that the mystery wood and this wood are the same.

 

I don't know much about reaction wood but my understanding is that in general there's no way to tell from grain that wood is reaction wood (either compression or tension)

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It's definitely oak, not silky oak. My guess would be white oak but I wouldn't put much money on that guess.

 

It would be helpful if you could post a much bigger pic of what you show in your third pic. See if you can get about a 1" x 1" section and have it show up on the screen maybe 6" wide (but not by just blowing up the image; I'm talking about a good resolution pic at 6" wide)

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Darn. That's exactly what I asked for but unfortunately you managed to get a section that doesn't have any row of earlywood pores. Judging by the earlier pic, though, I'm thinking maybe there just ISN'T a row of earlywood pores anywhere. Is that the case?

 

EDIT: yeah, now that I look closer at the earlier pic, I think that's the case (no early wood pore). Very weird.  I don't need any more info, you've done a good job. I'll need to poke around and see what I can find that might be a match. I'm still convinced this is oak, but right off hand I can't remember ever seeing oak with no earlywood pores.

 

WAIT ... I know what it is. It's live oak. I always forget the live oaks. They generally don't have a row of earlywood pores.

 

In fact, it looks EXACTLY like a piece of coast live oak / Quercus agrifolia that I have. See here:

 

http://hobbithouseinc.com/personal/woodpics/_anatomy/diffuse%20porous/domestics/_domestics.htm

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