Vyrolan Posted February 23, 2015 Report Share Posted February 23, 2015 How many of you guys have a sink in the shop? I often really wish I had one in my garage as it's very annoying/messy to go in (tracking who knows what with me) to use the sink in the kitchen. From my research it seems like it would be a huge pain to have one added, so I'm kinda hoping I'm just overvaluing the whole concept of having one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coop Posted February 23, 2015 Report Share Posted February 23, 2015 I have an old fence post out back and a water hose not too far away, but no sink. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raefco Posted February 23, 2015 Report Share Posted February 23, 2015 I have a few work spaces, my garage is connected to the basement shop and I have a sink in the basement. I have a shop building a couple blocks from the house, it has no water at this time, it is a very large PITA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Cancelleri Posted February 23, 2015 Report Share Posted February 23, 2015 I wish I had a sink in the shop. I could put one in since the pipe for the drain is on the other side of the wall. Running plumbing wouldn't be so bad. Only thing is you'd need to make sure the shop never gets below freezing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vyrolan Posted February 23, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2015 Is it a pain... it depends. My laundry room is on the other side of one of my shop walls, I could install a slop sink in an afternoon if I wanted to. Building codes might be a problem... I know in my old town (evanston) plumbing in garages/outbuildings was restricted because they were worried about bootleg apartments. But Evanston invented prohibition and is fondly called "the people republic of Evanston"... I don't think Glenview or Prospect Heights would have the same restrictions (but have not looked into it). The problem is how to vent it...I have a hose bib in the garage and behind/below there is the mechanical room in the basement so I have access to everything including drains run in that mechanical room (since it's also below the kitchen)...so doing a non-compliant sink would be pretty easy...but how to vent...doing a compliant vent would be an epic undertaking. I have an old fence post out back and a water hose not too far away, but no sink. Yea I have the hose in there, but outside is a far more usable space for you in Houston than for us up north. =p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodger. Posted February 23, 2015 Report Share Posted February 23, 2015 The problem is how to vent it...I have a hose bib in the garage and behind/below there is the mechanical room in the basement so I have access to everything including drains run in that mechanical room (since it's also below the kitchen)...so doing a non-compliant sink would be pretty easy...but how to vent...doing a compliant vent would be an epic undertaking. Yea I have the hose in there, but outside is a far more usable space for you in Houston than for us up north. =p use the hose bib for your water line, and set up a laundry tub. Put a 5 gallon bucket underneath the tub to catch your drain water. Good for sharpening and such. Dump the bucket at the end of the day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wouldwurker Posted February 23, 2015 Report Share Posted February 23, 2015 I have a faucet/util-a-tub in the shop. Don't know what I'd do without it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raefco Posted February 23, 2015 Report Share Posted February 23, 2015 I dont think a single sink would pose a vent issue, it may gurgle when it drains. If the line you tie into is vented with in 10 feet of the tie in or so you should be fine, you could even add something like this little on demand hot water heater for not much http://www.overstock.com/Home-Garden/Atmor-AT-900-03-3kW-110V-Tankless-Electric-Instant-Water-Heater/9723847/product.html?refccid=J2PJXHKZI2UZ6L2FLVWY27SOJI&searchidx=0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vyrolan Posted February 23, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2015 I am no plumber... but if you are draining into a vented line then aren't you fine? Practically, likely yes. By code, no. use the hose bib for your water line, and set up a laundry tub. Put a 5 gallon bucket underneath the tub to catch your drain water. Good for sharpening and such. Dump the bucket at the end of the day. I've thought about this and may just do that...but that still makes it kinda summer-only...I doubt we'd want a 5-gallon bucket of "shop sink" dumped down the kitchen sink all at once. =p I dont think a single sink would pose a vent issue, it may gurgle when it drains. If the line you tie into is vented with in 10 feet of the tie in or so you should be fine, you could even add something like this little on demand hot water heater for not much http://www.overstock.com/Home-Garden/Atmor-AT-900-03-3kW-110V-Tankless-Electric-Instant-Water-Heater/9723847/product.html?refccid=J2PJXHKZI2UZ6L2FLVWY27SOJI&searchidx=0 Well my actual hot water is also right there in the mechanical room if I wanted to change from the hose bib to a legit hot+cold sink. I also agree that a single sink is not likely to cause a vent issue...but that doesn't change the fact that code requires it to be vented. If we're not caring about the code, I could just put an AAV on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raefco Posted February 23, 2015 Report Share Posted February 23, 2015 I dont live in the greater chi-town area, I know what it is like up there, I work in the area a few times a year,in most cases every appliance does not have to be direct vented, it has as much to do with location in the flow and if it is before or after and how far from the vent it is. Many sinks and tubs are vented through an overflow device built into the sink. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vyrolan Posted February 23, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2015 I will have to check with the local inspector/engineer/office. Our local codes do explicitly say "No wet venting will be allowed." but it is an amendment to a section talking about toilets. If it can be a wet vent, then it's pretty trivial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodbutcher74 Posted February 23, 2015 Report Share Posted February 23, 2015 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodbutcher74 Posted February 23, 2015 Report Share Posted February 23, 2015 These things work great. Air comes in when water is going down the drain but if the drain plugs, water can't back up out the vent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpt life Posted February 24, 2015 Report Share Posted February 24, 2015 There are footages of unvented allowed with sinks and even toilets in some cases. As long as the whole system is vented that is. This is calculated by the velocity of fluid in a pipe of that length and the likelihood that it will suck the water out of the trap. Yet another friendly question to ask the old guy at the plumbing supply wholesale. He can get local allowances. Many places will follow a standard (say it's six feet) that will not allow the one way vent in the picture above. (Another question as you buy your pipe.) Plumbing can be worse than electric for certain local inspection variations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..Kev Posted February 24, 2015 Report Share Posted February 24, 2015 There have been a few times when I wished I had a sink.. Instead, I just put on gloves when things are going to be messy.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vyrolan Posted February 24, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2015 Mike, I'm pretty sure my sink would need to have its own vent pipe above the top of the sink that connects into the vent stack...and above the overflow of other fixtures on that drain line... Just connecting to the drain wouldn't do that...it could be downstream from another fixture so that section of pipe would be drain for the upstream fixture and vent for my new fixture which makes it a wet vent if I understand correctly. I think that may be allowed though with some allowances as has been mentioned. These things work great. Air comes in when water is going down the drain but if the drain plugs, water can't back up out the vent. Those are completely disallowed in Ilinois by the state code. There's not even any exceptions for particular special case situations. There are footages of unvented allowed with sinks and even toilets in some cases. As long as the whole system is vented that is. This is calculated by the velocity of fluid in a pipe of that length and the likelihood that it will suck the water out of the trap. Yet another friendly question to ask the old guy at the plumbing supply wholesale. He can get local allowances. Many places will follow a standard (say it's six feet) that will not allow the one way vent in the picture above. (Another question as you buy your pipe.) Plumbing can be worse than electric for certain local inspection variations. I want to check with a plumber about doing a hot water return line anyway...so I'll find one that knows the local stuff and can see what he thinks. It's definitely a tricksy thing. I certainly wouldn't want something (potentially unrelated) to cause a problem and flood that mechanical room and then insurance be like "oh well sink here against code must have caused this so go F yourself". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom King Posted February 24, 2015 Report Share Posted February 24, 2015 I don't worry about a vent on mine because it goes straight through the wall into a bush outside. No possibility of suction emptying the trap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vyrolan Posted February 24, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2015 If you are talking to a plumber or the local building department, ask about draining directly into your basements sanitary ejector pit (assuming you have one and it is close). Our two basement sinks and toilet are drain directly into the pit. I know the sinks are not vented. I believe the pit itself has its own vent. This might be a simple option. That's good idea. The drains that head into the pit are one of the options that run right along where I would need to tap into it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janello Posted February 24, 2015 Report Share Posted February 24, 2015 I have a NJ plumbing License, that said, not all states are created equally. The National Standard Pluming Code has just recently adopted the use of studor vents, so long as they are readily accessable, and they cannot be in attics. This means you need an access door or place it in a closet 6" above the flood rim of the fixture(s) being served. Off the record, If you need a sink in a shop and you're local code doesn't allow a studor vent, who cares! Mike is also correct. Ejector pits must have their own vent serving the pit. For what it's worth, a wet vent is one or more fixtures sharing a common vent, There must be a lavatory (sink) as the wash for the fixtures sharing that vent and as mentioned already there are codes for pipe sizes and distances. You can use one 2" vent for a full bathroom group if wet vented properly. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vyrolan Posted February 24, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2015 Thanks for the insight Janello. The studor vents (or AAVs or whatever you want to call them) are unfortunately explicitly banned here for whatever reason (kinda like aluminum wiring). That would definitely be the easiest. I was actually looking again last night and I think to the ejector pit may be the easiest by far. Some of the other drain pipes accessible there are actually part of basement fixtures (full bath in basement and laundry used to be down there), and I'm pretty sure all the fixtures sharing the drain/vent have to be on the same level (certainly a reasonable requirement). I could maybe tap into the kitchen drains but they're not quite as easy to get to and the injector pit is certainly closer/easier. Regardless, the clear answer is to find a local-aware plumber and get advice/consultation even if I end up doing all/some of the work myself. Off the record, If you need a sink in a shop and you're local code doesn't allow a studor vent, who cares! Yea, I find it really really difficult not to think that way on almost everything. =( I do find it funny that the spectrum ranges from "&%^(%^ the codes, do it" all the way to "don't even change a light bulb without a permit". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jfitz Posted February 24, 2015 Report Share Posted February 24, 2015 I don't have a utility sink, but I'd love to have one. I love all the options mentioned here - from fully code-compliant, to through-the-wall-and-into-the-bushes. I think I can use a sink/drain pump and run it into an existing drain used by the condensate pump on my heating system, but we'll see. Other shop improvements first!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janello Posted February 25, 2015 Report Share Posted February 25, 2015 Thanks for the insight Janello. The studor vents (or AAVs or whatever you want to call them) are unfortunately explicitly banned here for whatever reason (kinda like aluminum wiring). That would definitely be the easiest. I was actually looking again last night and I think to the ejector pit may be the easiest by far. Some of the other drain pipes accessible there are actually part of basement fixtures (full bath in basement and laundry used to be down there), and I'm pretty sure all the fixtures sharing the drain/vent have to be on the same level (certainly a reasonable requirement). I could maybe tap into the kitchen drains but they're not quite as easy to get to and the injector pit is certainly closer/easier. Regardless, the clear answer is to find a local-aware plumber and get advice/consultation even if I end up doing all/some of the work myself. Yea, I find it really really difficult not to think that way on almost everything. =( I do find it funny that the spectrum ranges from "&%^(%^ the codes, do it" all the way to "don't even change a light bulb without a permit". Just to be clear on this. For years it was against code in New Jersey to install a mechanical vent. Mechanical vents as I knew them had a diaphragm that could fail causing the release of sewer gas and I steered clear of them. The Studor vent is a MUCH better tested design than the mechanical vents of old, hence, New Jersey who has one of the strictest plumbing codes in the nation adopted thier use. Bottom line...they will eventually be accepted practice nationally. For a single sink in a shop, where it was a problem making a roof penetration, I would not hesitate to use one. I put one in my remodeled bathroom in my basement and have no reservations about it. Obviously, you have to do what you feel comfortable with. If the code violation makes you jiggly wiggly, don't do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT Proctor Posted February 26, 2015 Report Share Posted February 26, 2015 We have a slop sink in the shop, and it does get used, but not a whole lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimberMagic Posted March 1, 2015 Report Share Posted March 1, 2015 Utility sink is a great feature to have in a shop. Especially useful when cleaning up things like paint trays, rollers, and brushes, instead of using the kitchen sink. Here is mine. Basement bathroom is just outside the shop door, otherwise I'd have a stepstool at the utility sink ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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