Eric. Posted March 16, 2015 Report Share Posted March 16, 2015 In the market. For turning tools only...I sharpen my plane blades/chisels, etc with stones. Everything I read says that I don't need a Tormek for grinding turning tools, and frankly I don't wanna deal with the water anyway. My big question is slow speed or high speed? From what I hear it's almost impossible to ruin modern steels with overheating...that said, I'm not that impatient...it still only takes a couple seconds to touch up an edge on a slow speed grinder, and it sounds like it's much easier to screw up a tool on a high-speed. I'm green when it comes to sharpening turning tools, so idiot-proof seems prudent. I don't plan on doing much (any) re-shaping of bevels...at least at this point. I want a quality unit but would like to avoid the Tormek money range. $300ish top-end sounds reasonable. I've been looking at the Jets, both the Industrial model and the slow-speed, but the reviews on both are pretty bad with a very common complaint about wobbly wheels because of cheap stamped washers that should have been machined. Similar reviews on comparable Delta units. Is there a gold standard for bench grinders out there that I'm not aware of? Would love to hear suggestions. Also would like to hear thoughts on wheels. I'm willing to pay for a top-notch wheel. I know they can get expensive. Also jigs. The Oneway Wolverine seems to be popular. Thanks all! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indy Cindy Posted March 16, 2015 Report Share Posted March 16, 2015 Slow speed 8 inch grinder, Wolverine jig. And though you don't plan to reshape the bevel I found that I would have to when I started out because I kept messing up. It is easy to touch up an edge if everything is set up and you are using just one tool, but when you switch tools and your setup isn't exactly what you had the grinding will be off and you will be reshaping when you didn't want to. That said, I recently converted to a Sorby sharpening system. Partly because I couldn't sharpen a skew for love nor money on a grinder. Partly because I got tired of reshaping my tools when I didn't mean to. No doubt it is all user error, but after 3 years I gave up and this user is a lot happier with the Sorby. Yes, it is expensive. But it can be used for other tools. And when I calculated how much money I have in my turning tools and how I resisted keeping them properly sharp with the grinder it made sense for me to get a Sorby. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popper Posted March 16, 2015 Report Share Posted March 16, 2015 Hey Eric, I have a Tormek T-7. My wife give it to me for christmas. The T-4 runs around $400 or so. It works well and I haven't had a problem with it. I used it for a while for my chisels and planes about went back to my water stones for them. I still use it for other items around the house though. I like it to sharpen my kitchen knives. What used to be take me an hour to sharpen now takes about 20-30 minutes to do. When I was at a woodworking show earlier this year, they were doing a demo with it. I heard a lot of turners saying they love it for their tool but as I'm not a turner I can't speak first hand about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted March 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2015 Slow speed 8 inch grinder, Wolverine jig. And though you don't plan to reshape the bevel I found that I would have to when I started out because I kept messing up. It is easy to touch up an edge if everything is set up and you are using just one tool, but when you switch tools and your setup isn't exactly what you had the grinding will be off and you will be reshaping when you didn't want to. That said, I recently converted to a Sorby sharpening system. Partly because I couldn't sharpen a skew for love nor money on a grinder. Partly because I got tired of reshaping my tools when I didn't mean to. No doubt it is all user error, but after 3 years I gave up and this user is a lot happier with the Sorby. Yes, it is expensive. But it can be used for other tools. And when I calculated how much money I have in my turning tools and how I resisted keeping them properly sharp with the grinder it made sense for me to get a Sorby. Thanks Cindy...the Sorby looks interesting...I'll have to take a closer look at that. Re: standard grinders: after doing a tiny bit of research this morning it seems that the Baldor is the mac-daddy. They're expensive. Grizzly also offers an 8" low speed "heavy duty" for quite a bit less than the Baldor. It gets good reviews. Hey Eric, I have a Tormek T-7. My wife give it to me for christmas. The T-4 runs around $400 or so. It works well and I haven't had a problem with it. I used it for a while for my chisels and planes about went back to my water stones for them. I still use it for other items around the house though. I like it to sharpen my kitchen knives. What used to be take me an hour to sharpen now takes about 20-30 minutes to do. When I was at a woodworking show earlier this year, they were doing a demo with it. I heard a lot of turners saying they love it for their tool but as I'm not a turner I can't speak first hand about it. I'm not opposed to Tormek as a brand, I just don't want to deal with the water if I don't have to. I won't be sharpening every day so that means I'd constantly be filling up, draining, cleaning. I don't want that. From all accounts it's clear that a water-cooled grinding system is unnecessary for turning tools. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted March 16, 2015 Report Share Posted March 16, 2015 ==>The T-4 Too small a wheel. For turning tools, you want a shallow hollow-grind… In general you want a large a wheel as you can afford with as low a SFPM as you can afford… ==>Tormek Too slow unless you get the Naniwa aftermarket wheels - only available for the T-7 and brings the total to a grand+... Various low-speed diamond solutions work sell, but they start at a grand... The setup that a lot of turners use is something like Baldor's ‘turners grinder’ which I think is still available in 8" and 10" --- but it’s around $900 for the 8” and a lot more for the 10”… Then you add the full Wolverine setup for a couple hundred more… It's what I have, but don't use it for turning tools... I'm not a turner -- at least not yet If can see your way to $500, the ProEdge works well… Yea, as IC says, it's a bit expensive, but a wheel-based solution that you'd be happy with costs way more... A lot of folks really like the ProEdge... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted March 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2015 What are your thoughts on CBN wheels, Trip? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indy Cindy Posted March 16, 2015 Report Share Posted March 16, 2015 I didn't want to deal with water either so I didn't look closely at the Tormek, but my understanding is that it is a quality machine and that people like it. You are right that for modern turning tools you don't need water cooling. Re: bench grinders, lots of mess from the wheel and the tool, lots of fine gray powder. I don't seem to have as much mess with the Sorby which uses sanding belts, not an abrasive wheel. The Sorby also has a small footprint and I don't have to account for the long arm of the Wolverine jig when I position it in my shop. Practically speaking you need to keep the Wolverine jig in place on a grinder or else try to set it up exactly each time. There aren't marks or positions on the arm to help with that. And as the abrasive wheel gets smaller with use the setup changes so even if you scribe your own mark it changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted March 16, 2015 Report Share Posted March 16, 2015 ==>CBN wheels There are folks who really like them, but there have been reports that the binder rapidly breaks down if you’re not careful (it’s a heat thing)… I suspect that if you have a good slow-speed grinder, then they work AOK (but some still recomend cooling setups)… But I also suspect that the reports about de-bonding are correct. So if you use CBN wheels on a high-speed grinder, without cooling, and/ or are not careful – then you have a bald spinning piece of spinning steel… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted March 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2015 Complications...let's add it to death and taxes. My thoughts so far... The Sorby is appealing in terms of ease of use and price. I'm confused about its versatility though...can you regrind bevels on plane blades/chisels too? It's not critical, but I was looking forward to having the option of quickly changing bevels on my hand tools...I do all my honing with stones but regrinding isn't a good time. I don't do it often but it sucks when I do. If the Sorby is able to do this it looks more appealing. For wheels, I'd like something that's kind of "set it and forget it." I don't want a wheel that I have to dress all the time and worry about...I just wanna stick a tool to an abrasive and be done, and not have to think about that abrasive for years to come. Wishful thinking perhaps, but as close to that as possible is ideal. I would get a low-speed grinder if I chose to go the CBN route. And a confession...the name "Sorby" on that machine turns me off. The explanation for that would be difficult to put into words, boring, and fairly irrelevant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted March 16, 2015 Report Share Posted March 16, 2015 ==>"Sorby" on that machine turns me off The name 'Sorby' itself or that he plastered his signature on a sharpening station? Don't get me wrong, I was first put-off when I saw his signature all over the tools. Sort of like ‘Cosman Signature’ dovetail saws – the attitude alone would prevent a purchase... Of course, if ‘Chippendale’ had a line of tools… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indy Cindy Posted March 16, 2015 Report Share Posted March 16, 2015 I think the Sorby does all you want it to. You might want to talk to a US Sorby rep. Jeff Farris, US Sales Manager, is out of Brighton, MO. JFARRIS@ROBERTSORBY.COM.UK. 417-353-6309. He gave a demo at our Woodcraft last year. His focus was on the turning tools, but I saw the sharpener and it was all over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indy Cindy Posted March 16, 2015 Report Share Posted March 16, 2015 ==>"Sorby" on that machine turns me off The name 'Sorby' itself or that he plastered his signature on a sharpening station? Don't get me wrong, I was first put-off when I saw his signature all over the tools. Sort of like ‘Cosman Signature’ dovetail saws – the attitude alone would prevent a purchase... Of course, if ‘Chippendale’ had a line of tools… Sorby isn't like one of those flavor-of-the-month turners who lend their name to a tool. I agree, that has gotten ridiculous. Sorby is a manufacturer, been making hand tools in Sheffield, England for centuries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted March 16, 2015 Report Share Posted March 16, 2015 ==>Sorby isn't like one of those flavor-of-the-month turners who lend their name to a tool Love this place, learn something new every day! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duckkisser Posted March 16, 2015 Report Share Posted March 16, 2015 slow speed all the way after getting a slow speed low temp wheels and a decent grinder it changed my sharpening in an amazing way. its almost like im learning to turn all over again with the correct tools. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted March 16, 2015 Report Share Posted March 16, 2015 Eric, I bought my grandson a Sorby Pro Edge system used just because its very easy to use with a sanding belt vs a stone. He was 8 then and learn to sharpen his tools in just one short lesson. Expensive new but worth a look. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted March 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2015 I stopped at Rockler this morning to pick up some shelf pins and they coincidentally had one of the Sorby units on display. Thoughts based on only a cursory look at it: What I like: - price...after buying a decent low-speed grinder, high-quality wheel, and a jig, I'm at a grand or close to it. The Sorby would be a little more than half that. - size...it's very compact and with my shrinking shop space, that's appealing What I don't like: - fit and finish...it just looks kind of cheap. The Rockler guy kind of chuckled in a condescending way when I mentioned that, and he held firm that it was a quality piece of equipment. But just looking at it screams...cheap. Of course it's Rockler so claims of "quality" have to be taken with a truckload of salt. - sandpaper...yeah...not really into sandpaper. - tiny motor...and I do mean tiny. I bet it's 1/4 hp. How that equates in performance and longevity...no idea. Maybe it doesn't matter. About the Sorby turnoff...it's hard to explain. I kind of have this (perhaps irrational) view of Sorby that's similar to how I feel about Craftsman...maybe back in the day they were the cat's ass, but they've gone obsolete and haven't stayed on the cutting edge...no pun intended. Perhaps the quality is no worse than it was in decades past, but perhaps they're not deserving of the blanket crown jewel status that is generally granted to them by some of the old-timers among us. Perhaps I'm totally wrong. But I can't shake the sentiment. Sheffield doesn't mean much to me...Crown tools are made there, too...Sears sells them. I bought a Crown marking gauge about ten years ago...junk. But it was made in Sheffield. My poor opinion of Sorby is based purely on speculation and assumption. I won't pretend that any of it has merit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted March 16, 2015 Report Share Posted March 16, 2015 It is an odd looking cheap looking little gizmo. My grandson takes woodturning classes every month. The place that he takes his classes use these. They get much more use than a single hobby wood turner could ever use in years of turning. Hartville has a good supply of accessories I think he got the square edge attachment from Hartville. We just got him a used 4224b and some full sized Sorby bowl gouges. He is now 12 and turns pretty much daily and the little sharpening station is still meeting all his needs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted March 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2015 Good to know...it's not out of contention by any means. Lots of research and thinkifying to do yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Cancelleri Posted March 16, 2015 Report Share Posted March 16, 2015 I went a bit over the top with my setup. I have a Tormek T-7, all the jigs for turning tools and some other misc tools. It's correct that reprofiling it's slow as could be, however once you've got the bevel and profile you want, repeating the angle is easy. It's an expensive upfront cost, however almost all turning tool options unless you freehand it or make a slew of your own sharpening jigs for a grinder. I also have an 8" Rikon slow speed grinder that I use for reprofiling all kinds of tools, but setting up first profile is done on the grinder. Tormek makes a Bench Grinder Mount that you mount to a piece of 3/4 ply, you mount the feet and just line up the tool rest where you need it and some of the jigs work on there for sharpening or reprofiling it, then I transfer to the tormek without any adjustment to the jig and hone the edge. You can also go with the Worksharp 3000 with tormek jigs and that whole sandpaper route which is annoying, but you can get a mirror finish on your edges if you're insane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PVicchitto Posted March 17, 2015 Report Share Posted March 17, 2015 I have been using a slow speed grinder and a CBN wheel from D-Way with vari-grind for the past 3 years no degradation or other issues awesome edge quality, no heat build up perfectly balanced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhighlander Posted March 17, 2015 Report Share Posted March 17, 2015 Eric, the Sorby machine has another big advantage that no one has mentioned. A sanding belt doesn't fail as flying shrapnel, the way a fractured stone wheel can. For sure stay away from any high speed grinders with stone wheels. They are one of the most common cause of injuries in industrial environments, according to OSHA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arminius Posted March 17, 2015 Report Share Posted March 17, 2015 The Sorby unit doesn't look that different from this one at Lee Valley. Useful for when you do not want a hollow-grind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodbutcher74 Posted March 20, 2015 Report Share Posted March 20, 2015 Couldn't you pick up a Sorby at Rockler and take it home and try it out? If you don't like it take it back. Never had them have an issue with returns. Just a thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted March 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2015 Couldn't stomach the cheesy factor of that Sorby. I'm sure it's a fine little machine. It's not for me. I'm a sucker...held my nose and bought a Tormek. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-MattK- Posted September 22, 2015 Report Share Posted September 22, 2015 digging this one outta the archive...First of all, just curious: @Eric. how happy have you been with the Tormek? Has it been decent value for money?I started my turning class today - made 3 pretty misshapen eggs but got a good foundational intro. (and have some things to practice this week!)We haven't gotten to sharpening yet but they have sharpening equipment in the studio and you can get the teacher or TA to sharpen for you (until we're instructed how to sharpen next week or the week after). The instructor sharpened the spindle gouge I was using freehand. For the "jiggy" sharpeners in the classroom they have a slow speed delta bench grinder with a wolverine jig set-up... so for consistency's sake, I thought I'd give that a try at home and consider the Tormek if I just can't get it done with the bench grinder. Here's where I'm slightly confused.The class's grinder is an 8" 1800 RPM model. And as @wtnhighlander mentions - "stay away from any high speed grinders with stone wheels." However, looking at the wolverine jig instructions (which google pulled off highland woodworking's website for me: http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/library/manuals/oneway/Wolverine Jig.pdf ) - it says "our recommended grinder 8" @ 3450 RPM" - is that a slow speed grinder?From what I saw today and have read here, I assume I'll be ok with a 1725-1800 RPM grinder with the Wolverine jig and just ignore what they say in the instructions... I assume that's sensible and no one objects? BTW, I was looking at this grinder to go with the wolverine set-up: http://www.cpojettools.com/jet-726100-8-in--1-2-hp-woodworking-tool-bench-grinder-with-norton-wheels/jetn726100,default,pd.html?start=3&q=8 in bench grinder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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