Jointer head install...sounds weird? Listen...

[Eric.]

Installed the Byrd head today, replaced the bearings too.  Everything seemed to go as it should.

 

Maybe I'm just paranoid, but this sounds weird to me.  I expected it to sound different, but this is...off?  High pitched...like there's friction...not as smooth as it should be or something.  I don't know...take a listen.

 

 

[dwacker]

Doesn't sound right that's for sure.

[Eric.]

Well what the hell is it?

 

Fantastic.  Here we go.

[Immortan D]

I don't think it's friction. More like harmonic dissonance. I'd check each individual blade, see if there's one loose.

[Eric.]

I checked them all before turning it on...they're all tight.

[Trip]

Let's get some more data...

 

How much vibration do you feel on the tables -- is it the same as before the install?

 

Did you get new bearings?

 

Were the bearings supplied/installed with the head at the factory?

 

Are the bearings symetric?

 

Did you need to remove/retension the belts?

 

 

That'll get us going...

[estesbubba]

Your neighbors are probably taking shelter thinking the tornado sirens are going off.

How long did the install take? Thinking of getting these if Grizzly has summer sale on them again.

[Eric.]

Not getting much if any vibration...that seems the same as before, no problems.

 

Yes, new bearings...the junk ones from Grizzly...but they're the same ones that came with the machine, so unless I got a dud...

 

Not installed on the head when I got it, I did it myself.  All the seating and what-not seemed to go as expected...no major pounding or problems or anything.

 

Don't know about symmetric...that one's above my pay grade.  No idea.

 

I did remove the belt but put it back on with the same tension it had before.

[Eric.]

How long did the install take?

 

I'll let you know when it's done.   Not long...so far.  Couple hours with table alignment included.  I have a feeling this project just began for me. 

[dwacker]

Loosen the belt until it's loose enough to feel use but not slip. If that fixes it or it gets quieter you likely have bad bearings.

[dwacker]

Take a long screw driver hold it against the bearing caps and stick your ear on the handle. Screwdriver acts as a stethoscope.

[Trip]

For reasons that are out of scope, the noise of byrd cutterhead should be lower than a standard cutterhead w/ 50thou… So the noise is bad… No question…

 

No vibration… Hummmm… Have to noodle on this one…

 

Let’s eliminate the obvious… remove the belt and run the motor… OK, that’s not it, but… Now spin the head by hand… Again, there won’t be, but… any play? Any resistance? I doubt there is, but checking the obvious eliminates it…

 

Unless you installed the head backwards (don’t laugh, it happens), we’ll tackle alignment next… What model jointer? I’ll get the manual and look at the headstock arrangement, then bearings…

[dwacker]

You can't put the head on backwards. The pulley won't go on if you do. There is no alignment settings on the bearing caps.

[Eric.]

It's not backwards...I just built up the courage to run a board over it...cuts smooth.

 

There is no resistance or weirdness when I spin the head by hand...like I said, everything seemed a-ok normal until I turned it on.

 

G0490

 

I sent an email to Grizzly tech support with the video I posted...but I got an automated response saying I should expect a three day wait before I hear from them.

[Trip]

OK, never worked on an Asian-sourced jointer… On the Euro gear I've used, the bearings are mounted on a headstock block and those are aligned... The cutterhead shaft is then inserted into the bearing block... The entire assembly can be adjusted for alignment with fine-thread allen screws......

 

Then I'm with you on bearings -- but I would have expected to see a diference in transmitted vibration...

[Eric.]

Take a long screw driver hold it against the bearing caps and stick your ear on the handle. Screwdriver acts as a stethoscope.

 

You mean when the machine is running?  What exactly would I be listening for?  Seems like that would just give me a headache and I'd be none the wiser.

 

I'll try messing with the belt tomorrow.  I'm too frustrated right now to deal with it anymore.  I'd like to roll this thing out to the curb at the moment.

 

Apparently I didn't get the beds perfectly set either despite what my straight edge and feeler gauges told me...a little twist in my boards.  So basically a wasted day.  Fun stuff.

[Janello]

Didn't you mention something when you got the cutter head about balancing cuts...having so many. That to me sounds like a head balance issue.

The only thing you changed are bearings and head...so it's likely one of the two. Being the bearings are kinda hard to be screwd up (possible but not likely) my guess is the cylinder is out of balance. You can still have a perfectly milled cylinder that cuts perfect with it being out of balance. If that is the issue it will eat bearings fast.

i would put the old cutter head back in with the new bearings...if you get no noise its the cutter head.

[Eric.]

Yeah that was the one with a million holes drilled in it.  Whether that's the problem or not I suppose is impossible to say...you would think it would shake like hell if it wasn't balanced though.

[Eric.]

The holes don't go all the way through...they're just little slugs drilled out between about 1/8" and 1/4" deep...but there's a bunch of them...think I counted like 10 or 12.  A stupid amount of holes.  Of course I would get the head that the moron milled and balanced.  Seems odd that they would even pass that through QC and sell it...but what do I know?...maybe it's standard practice.  I don't like it though.

[Pwalter5110]

Take a long screw driver hold it against the bearing caps and stick your ear on the handle. Screwdriver acts as a stethoscope.

We do that on cars all the time. Its actually the easiest way for a mechanic to know which wheel bearing is going bad.

 

Yeah that was the one with a million holes drilled in it.  Whether that's the problem or not I suppose is impossible to say...you would think it would shake like hell if it wasn't balanced though.

I agree. If it was out of balance, it would probably vibrate pretty badly. To me, it sounds like a bad bearing. Its actually pretty easy to screw up a bearing beating on them. 

[Trip]

The ‘no vibration’ is an important clue… If the head was out of balance, it would shake the entire jointer… Been there, done that --- and believe me – you’d know it…

If a bearing was very bad, you’d also get vibration, especially when you milled stock… Since you say that was smooth, then I doubt it’s a course-level bearing problem…

 

Since you don’t have any cutterhead alignment capability, that’s out…

 

So it could be a fine-level bearing issue – can you swap the bearings from the old head? That's a point, are the bearings exactly the same? For instance, if the bearings are even a few thou diferent in depth, you might need bearing shims --- again, my experience with jointer bearings is going to be diferent (in my setup, you need to shim-out the bearings to a precise final depth)?

 

I’d reduce tension on the belt and run the unit to check the bearings ad PB suggested… Then I’d take the belt off and run the motor, just to eliminate that -- Grizzly will probably ask you to do it, so you might as well have the answer... Sorry, clutching at straws here…

 

You might pop over to LJ and see if anyone has performed the same operation…

 

Actually, let me pop over to youtube and find a video to see what’s involved on this unit…

[pghmyn]

The holes don't go all the way through...they're just little slugs drilled out between about 1/8" and 1/4" deep...but there's a bunch of them...think I counted like 10 or 12.  A stupid amount of holes.  Of course I would get the head that the moron milled and balanced.  Seems odd that they would even pass that through QC and sell it...but what do I know?...maybe it's standard practice.  I don't like it though.

Small part of me thinks those holes have something to do with it. Just like blowing tangent to the opening of a soda bottle. Except now you have 10 or 12 openings, spinning at several hundred feet per second.

[Janello]

Yeah that was the one with a million holes drilled in it.  Whether that's the problem or not I suppose is impossible to say...you would think it would shake like hell if it wasn't balanced though.

not necissarily. Because it has so.many holes it was likely a bitch to balance and was really close to being "okay". Hence no shake and rattle...but still not right.

[Immortan D]

Eric and his singing jointer.

 

Send me that thing and I'll spray it with WD-40 until I find the source of the noise. Then you can clean the mess 

[Trip]

Just watched the Grizzly-published instructional video...

 

 

 

There is a spec on cutterhead tolerance and they mention shimming the blocks during install to get within 4thou of that tolerance – actually, you should shoot for better than that… They mention, but do not stress, that the amount of shim would normally change with a new head… They do mention that the amount of shim may differ front-to-back...

 

Also, is the diameter of the new head (inserts included) the same as the old head with correct protrusion? That could do it...

 

 

Ring any bells?