Eric. Posted March 25, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2015 I watched that video before the installation. The old head had no shims on it, but when I installed the new one it was off ± 3 thou, so I sacrificed a feeler gauge and shimmed it to dead nuts. After I did that I wondered why I didn't simply adjust the outfeed bed...but I didn't because I was in "follow instructions" mode. Regardless...it was shimmed 3 thou on the front side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted March 25, 2015 Report Share Posted March 25, 2015 One idea shot to Hell.... How about total diameter? Sorry, still grasping at straws... Doubt it, but you never know.... and if the two are diferent by 100thou+... The test cuts were smooth... No vibration felt -- hand near end of table? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted March 25, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2015 Total diameter of the new bearings compared to the old? Don't know...didn't check them...they fit into the blocks just as I would expect them to...quite snug but didn't need to pound them in. The inside diameter of the pulley side new bearing did seem a little tight...needed a few blows to seat it...but it wasn't anything above and beyond what the guys did in that video. As far as vibration, the tables are pretty much dead still...could probably do the nickel test successfully but I didn't try it...but it's a-ok as far as I'm concerned. Definitely not shaking like hell like I would expect with an unbalanced head. I did get some vibration if I touched that blade guard attachment part that lives right near the front bearing block. But the tables are still. Which is a bit odd I suppose... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Cancelleri Posted March 25, 2015 Report Share Posted March 25, 2015 Eric, Your sound is definitely a harmonic of some kind. Are the head pulleys co-planer to the motor pulleys? Could it be the belts rubbing the side of the pulley more than it should? I just made a video of my Grizzly jointer which is a G0593 which has a grizzly spiral head, here's what it sounds like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted March 25, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2015 That's basically what my old head sounded like...maybe a little deeper, but smooth like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted March 25, 2015 Report Share Posted March 25, 2015 ==>not shaking like hell like I would expect with an unbalanced head I'm past that... Was thinking about an iffy bearing showing itself during a milling operation... Have you watched the belt? As suggested above, sometimes they vibrate in/out and/or side/side and sets-up a harmonic... Either a tension issue, but more likely an alignment issue... I've had this one, but on a planer... ==>few blows to seat it Used the method outlined in the video, right... nice soft 2x4s for support and soft 4x4 as a dead-blow.?.. None of that, "We'll just use a deep-socket" stuff... Right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpt life Posted March 25, 2015 Report Share Posted March 25, 2015 How confident are you that the bearings are parallel in their yokes? The whine is turbine sounding. The metallic oscillation sounds like a bearing issue for certain to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted March 25, 2015 Report Share Posted March 25, 2015 ==>How confident are you that the bearings are parallel in their yokes? that's a good question... Highlights an issue with the approach... I'd press the bearings first... I realize folks don't want to purchase a bearing press, but most auto garages will do it for free -- or $5... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandonD Posted March 25, 2015 Report Share Posted March 25, 2015 I have the same jointer with a straight knife cutterhead. When I last worked on my jointer I replaced the belt with a link belt. The sound changed from a dull like T Cancelleri's to a higher pitched one like yours. Change the belt when you made the cutterhead change out? Even to a new rubber belt? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted March 25, 2015 Report Share Posted March 25, 2015 ==>I replaced the belt with a link belt Can anyone please explain how segmented belts work? I know what they are claimed to do, but not how they are supposed to do it.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandonD Posted March 25, 2015 Report Share Posted March 25, 2015 They reduce vibration because they don't assume the shape of the pulley orientation. At least that's how I understand it. Before you put a new rubber belt on it is usually circular. Take it off after it's tensioned for a while and the belt is now in an oval shape. I had the belt for my contractor saw and it made a ton of difference. When I upgraded my saw I put it on the jointer just to see how it would perform. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhighlander Posted March 25, 2015 Report Share Posted March 25, 2015 Eric, does the sound change when you lower the infeed table? I mean lower it significantly. To me, the noise on the video sounds very much like a mechanical siren, which is simply a rotating armature with "pockets" that pass rapidly by a hole, or series of holes, in the stator. If the tables are set close in on the cutterhead, you might get the same effect. If moving the table does nothing, then I vote for the mis-aligned bearing theory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coop Posted March 25, 2015 Report Share Posted March 25, 2015 The screw driver will help isolate the noise. Sounds like bearings to me Buenos Suerte! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Cancelleri Posted March 25, 2015 Report Share Posted March 25, 2015 ==>I replaced the belt with a link belt Can anyone please explain how segmented belts work? I know what they are claimed to do, but not how they are supposed to do it.... Segmented aka cogged belts are "relieved" on the inside of the V to allow the belt to not retain the shape after sitting for longer periods of time which reduces vibration. This also reduces belt flutter when the motor is running. When I bought my tablesaw it had be sitting for 2 or 3 years, I replaced the belts with cogged belts and went from horrible shaking to a smooth nickel test on startup and shutdown of the saw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted March 25, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2015 I'm fairly certain the bearings are seated properly. Obviously they weren't pressed in, but they were seated as seen in the video, with a dead blow and 2x4s...no crushing metal-on-metal abuse or anything. My plan is to mess with the belt first, and if that doesn't solve it, I'm gonna remove the shims I put in there and see if that changes anything. I can't imagine that would be the cause, but at least I'll eliminate variables. At that point I'll know for sure it's either the head or the bearings...then I'll call Grizzly and demand an exchange on all three. I'll also lower the infeed table and see if that changes the noise...but I doubt that's the cause...this sounds like a mechanical whine to me. Would be great if I was wrong about that...don't think so though. Thanks for all the help so far guys... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
estesbubba Posted March 25, 2015 Report Share Posted March 25, 2015 Segmented aka cogged belts are "relieved" on the inside of the V to allow the belt to not retain the shape after sitting for longer periods of time which reduces vibration. This also reduces belt flutter when the motor is running. When I bought my tablesaw it had be sitting for 2 or 3 years, I replaced the belts with cogged belts and went from horrible shaking to a smooth nickel test on startup and shutdown of the saw. Cogged belts are what I use in all my machinery and make big difference plus a lot cheaper than link belts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted March 25, 2015 Report Share Posted March 25, 2015 ==>cogged belts are "relieved" on the inside of the V to allow the belt to not retain the shape after sitting for longer periods of time which reduces vibration. Sorry, I got my terms mixed-up... I was thinking 'linked belt' when I read 'segmented belt'... I get segmented, it's those orange linked-ones that I don't get... Maybe segmented and/or linked do something positive on a single-belt drive, but most of my stationary tools are multi-belt... I think my small stationary sanders are single-belt, but I forget... I don't have segmented or linked anywhere in the shop -- most (if not all) are those small/thin Euro belts -- e.x. 10x8mm SPZ. Maybe on a belt change, I'll try one and see if it does anything... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Cancelleri Posted March 25, 2015 Report Share Posted March 25, 2015 ==>cogged belts are "relieved" on the inside of the V to allow the belt to not retain the shape after sitting for longer periods of time which reduces vibration. Sorry, I got my terms mixed-up... I was thinking 'linked belt' when I read 'segmented belt'... I get segmented, it's those orange linked-this that I don't get... Maybe segmented and/or linked do something positive on a single-belt drive, but most of my stationary tools are multi-belt... I think my small stationary sanders are single-belt setups... I don't have either anywhere in the shop... Segmented belts won't work on a multi-belt machine. They work well for contractor style 1.5HP table saws. I had one on my old Jet saw. Made things much quieter and smoother. Link belts can be changed in size to fit the machine you put it on. They are also a real pain to put together, think of the pain of peeling the plastic wax dipped stuff on new router blades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted March 25, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2015 First of all, as an aside...should I be getting this arc when I start the machine? Y'all see that? It's tough to see in the video, but I'm not sure the motor pulley is spinning as dead smooth as it should...can't really tell if it's the motor brake at the end or if it's doing it on its own, but it appears to have the slightest wobble when coming to rest. I also get the slightest vibration in the machine when the motor is on and no belt attached...seems odd. Why that would suddenly be a factor now but not before, who knows. Or perhaps I'm imagining things because I'm in paranoid mode. Again, hard to tell in the video, but this doesn't seem to be as perfectly smooth as I would expect. There's no detectable resistance, but it does have a slightly "loose" sound, if that makes any sense...although nothing about it feels loose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted March 25, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2015 Nevermind...just took the head assembly apart...pretty sure it's the front bearing...it ain't right. Need a bearing puller to swap out the old one unless I wanna wait for another new one. I still wanna know about that arc though...thoughts? Is that normal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgreenb Posted March 25, 2015 Report Share Posted March 25, 2015 unless I wanna wait for another new one. Yeah right. Even forgetting about the machine downtime, no way you're gonna sleep right until this thing works (nor would I). Go get a bearing puller and try it out. Hope this fixes it! (BTW, that slight "wobble" when coming to rest - I've noticed the same thing in my own jointer, FWIW). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Cancelleri Posted March 25, 2015 Report Share Posted March 25, 2015 That arc is normal on startup. When power is first applied to the motor, the arc happens between the brushes and the commutator if I remember correctly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted March 25, 2015 Report Share Posted March 25, 2015 ==>arc when I start the machine? It’s OK ==>motor pulley is spinning as dead smooth as it should Cheap pulley – certainly… Cheap motor bearings, probably… ==>I also get the slightest vibration in the machine when the motor is on and no belt attached...seems odd See above ==>why that would suddenly be a factor now but not before, who knows. Because you’re looking for it… before you just worried about milling a stick, now you’re looking at how the machine is actually accomplishing that task… ==>does have a slightly "loose" sound, if that makes any sense Swap the bearing, better yet -- get a set of good bearings that'll last 10 years... ==>bearing puller to swap out the old one unless Local auto garage/mechanic… Then ask him to press the bearings… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted March 25, 2015 Report Share Posted March 25, 2015 ==>arc when I start the machine? It’s OK ==>motor pulley is spinning as dead smooth as it should Cheap pulley – certainly… Cheap motor bearings, probably… ==>I also get the slightest vibration in the machine when the motor is on and no belt attached...seems odd See above ==>why that would suddenly be a factor now but not before, who knows. Because you’re looking for it… before you just worried about milling a stick, now you’re looking at how the machine is actually accomplishing that task… ==>does have a slightly "loose" sound, if that makes any sense Swap the bearing... Or better still, get a good set of bearings... ==>bearing puller to swap out the old one unless Local auto garage/mechanic… Then ask him to press the bearings… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted March 25, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2015 ==>arc when I start the machine? It’s OK ==>motor pulley is spinning as dead smooth as it should Cheap pulley – certainly… Cheap motor bearings, probably… ==>I also get the slightest vibration in the machine when the motor is on and no belt attached...seems odd See above ==>why that would suddenly be a factor now but not before, who knows. Because you’re looking for it… before you just worried about milling a stick, now you’re looking at how the machine is actually accomplishing that task… ==>does have a slightly "loose" sound, if that makes any sense Swap the bearing ==>bearing puller to swap out the old one unless Local auto garage/mechanic… Then ask him to press the bearings… Alright. I got a decent mechanic around the corner and I'll see if he'll do it for me. Thanks for holding my hand through this...I hate the machine maintenance aspect of this hobby...because I'm no damn good at it and I don't care. Guess I'll order a new bearing and wait for it. Hope it's not a dud. The old one seems fine but I guess if I tried pulling it off I'd screw it up since that's how these things go for me. LOL Mike. Can't wait to see your bandsaw turn on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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