Trip Posted March 25, 2015 Report Share Posted March 25, 2015 ==>I hate the machine maintenance aspect of this hobby I really don't do as much as I should, nor do I enjoy it.... But I'm interested in how they work and how to fix them... It's more out of necessity than inclination... In the ‘good old days’ there were guys locally who could just fix anything... We had a machine shop, a pattern shop and full-service gunsmith right in town – and more importantly, the infrastructure support that goes with it… Need something welded – no problem… Need a 6” 3/8-16 Type-8 hex cap – not an issue… Nowadays, it's not as much about the money as getting someone good who is available on short-notice… We still have a firearms manufacturer, so there's some good pattern kit available for the one-off and a farm/feed shop with guys who can weld... But small engine repair, machining, etc -- forget about it... I've started taking weekend courses at the local CC to learn a few things before all these guys all just retire... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted March 25, 2015 Report Share Posted March 25, 2015 That arc is normal on startup. When power is first applied to the motor, the arc happens between the brushes and the commutator if I remember correctly. induction motors don't have brushes. No there should be no arc. I don't see it in the video but there should be none. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted March 25, 2015 Report Share Posted March 25, 2015 you can see an arc with a cheap startup winding switch... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted March 25, 2015 Report Share Posted March 25, 2015 you can see an arc with a cheap startup winding switch... If you see an arc at the start switch it means it needs to be replaced. An arc is caused by resistance / worn contacts. This is real common for these switches to wear prematurely in a hobby shop environment where the machines are short cycled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted March 25, 2015 Report Share Posted March 25, 2015 Back to the noise issue. Use the screw driver to isolate the noise. If its at the bearing, obviously you need to replace. When you get a new bearing for a machine of this nature you need to spin by hand before use. If it free spins it is not properly lubricated and will die almost instantly. They need to be a little stiff with the thicker lubrication and not free spin. Take the shim out, its not needed. If you had a dovetail way jointer then shimming is an option but never more than .003. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted March 25, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2015 If you see an arc at the start switch it means it needs to be replaced. An arc is caused by resistance / worn contacts. This is real common for these switches to wear prematurely in a hobby shop environment where the machines are short cycled. So what does this mean for me? Do I need to replace something? When you say start switch, I suppose you're not talking about the buttons I press to start and stop it, but something else in/near the motor? Talk to me like I'm a ten year old. I know nothing about motors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted March 25, 2015 Report Share Posted March 25, 2015 So what does this mean for me? Do I need to replace something? When you say start switch, I suppose you're not talking about the buttons I press to start and stop it, but something else in/near the motor? Talk to me like I'm a ten year old. I know nothing about motors. The centrifugal switch / start switch is in the end of the motor housing. The arc is telling you that it is going to die. A motor shop will change it for you or you can do it yourself. Its not a big job but take that with a grain of salt Ive done it many times. Some motors you can get to it by removing the end cover and some you have to pull the motor apart. Pull the end cover off if you can see it and remove it then great if not then take it to a motor shop. Google centrifugal switch you will see what they look like. Unplug the damn thing before removing the end cover. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted March 25, 2015 Report Share Posted March 25, 2015 Here watch this video it should be the same as or very similar toy your small motor. https://youtu.be/F-KESdl1svg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted March 25, 2015 Report Share Posted March 25, 2015 ==>hobby shop environment where the machines are short cycled. Good point, I keep forgetting that one... Actually, I did think of it during Kiki's video on pulley wobble -- cycled three times in under a minute.. I keep thinking these last ten years, but it could have warn out short-cycling in much less time... BTW: that's switch swap's a good video... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted March 25, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2015 Would it be stupid to just wait for it to die? i.e. dangerous, bad for the motor, etc...or is it just something I should do because it's an inevitable result? I really don't feel like taking a motor apart. I really don't. BTW...I obviously don't start and stop that machine like that during normal use... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oceandragon Posted March 25, 2015 Report Share Posted March 25, 2015 I think you should just contact Griz regarding the issues, tell them to make it right, send parts if you can do it yourself, or send you a new unit. Send them the youtube link and forum link for impact, its their reputation and money. The noise and Arc is a problem, my thoughts are, if these things are wrong what else is wrong. Just could be some crappy assembly and component issues, the bigger picture is that when you flip that switch and the sharp pointies are spinning I would want full "fu**ing" confidence in my machine. If I was them I'd make it right in a hurry im sure alot of people are paying attention and as wood workers we decide with our wallets and not just text on websites. Infact, I was contemplating Griz again for another machine purchase, im very curious as to how this will play-out. Sorry for the stress man, I know I'd be fighting a headache and mad fraustration if I was you. Keep cool in the process, your helping people out and people in the forrums are being really helpfull, it's nice to see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted March 25, 2015 Report Share Posted March 25, 2015 Would it be stupid to just wait for it to die? i.e. dangerous, bad for the motor, etc...or is it just something I should do because it's an inevitable result? I really don't feel like taking a motor apart. I really don't. It depends on your machine. Does dust accumulate around the motor. Mine is in a separated housing so never sees dust, don't know how yours is installed. It will just not start one day but really that is about it. If sawdust gets all over the motor then I guess there may be a chance of fire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted March 25, 2015 Report Share Posted March 25, 2015 ==>I obviously don't start and stop that machine like that during normal use... I know you don't -- just giving you stick... If you have the thing apart, it's worth doing... 99% is the contactors... If you're in a hurry, you could crack the case, pull the switch and take a look... Sixty seconds with a file would probably take care of it... You should certainly get the switch and plan for a replacement opertunity, but it's [probably] not like your shop's going to burn down... But than again, what do I know -- I had a bandsaw motor catch fire... <edit> BTW: I saw that because it's a jointer --- you make chips... If this was a sander.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted March 25, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2015 Don't think I'm gonna grab that wolf by the ears right now. I'll deal with it when I need to. I've had my fill of frustration for the week. I think you should just contact Griz regarding the issues, tell them to make it right, send parts if you can do it yourself, or send you a new unit. Send them the youtube link and forum link for impact, its their reputation and money. The noise and Arc is a problem, my thoughts are, if these things are wrong what else is wrong. Just could be some crappy assembly and component issues, the bigger picture is that when you flip that switch and the sharp pointies are spinning I would want full "fu**ing" confidence in my machine. A bit of an overreaction, I think. Bad bearings happen, switches go bad. It's not the end of the world nor is it a problem exclusive to cheaper Chinese machines. It's incredibly annoying and I'd love to pay someone else to deal with it, but like Trip said...who? I couldn't find "jointer repairman" in the Yellow Pages so I guess it's on me. They won't be sending me a new jointer unless I buy a new jointer...I've had this one for years...trouble-free...aside from that garbage fence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted March 25, 2015 Report Share Posted March 25, 2015 Don't think I'm gonna grab that wolf by the ears right now. I'll deal with it when I need to. I've had my fill of frustration for the week. A bit of an overreaction, I think. Bad bearings happen, switches go bad. It's not the end of the world nor is it a problem exclusive to cheaper Chinese machines. It's incredibly annoying and I'd love to pay someone else to deal with it, but like Trip said...who? I couldn't find "jointer repairman" in the Yellow Pages so I guess it's on me. They won't be sending me a new jointer unless I buy a new jointer...I've had this one for years...trouble-free...aside from that garbage fence. If you wanted to pay someone to have it done you can call Powermatic. They will be able to suggest a repair service that will come out and do it. I don't suggest doing that, I think you can handle it when the time comes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oceandragon Posted March 25, 2015 Report Share Posted March 25, 2015 Oh for some reason I thought it was new unit, dif a overeaction, I have to install more coffee! I thought it was grizzly not Powermatic.. time for more coffee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted March 25, 2015 Report Share Posted March 25, 2015 Oh for some reason I thought it was new unit, dif a overeaction, I have to install more coffee! I thought it was grizzly not Powermatic.. time for more coffee. It doesn't matter if its a Griz or PM the repair guys will work on pretty much any machine. PM handles most of their warranty issues by sending out authorized technicians not PM employees. They have authorized repair services all over the US. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janello Posted March 25, 2015 Report Share Posted March 25, 2015 This thread reminds me of the baseboard molding I took off in the the living room that was connected to the kitchen that led to the hallway that tore the paint off.... that the outlets covers and switches and...... Whole house remodel. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted March 25, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2015 LOL...yeah, ya gotta love a good wormhole. Happens every time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted March 25, 2015 Report Share Posted March 25, 2015 ==>Don't think I'm gonna grab that wolf by the ears right now That's OK, but order the part now and mark your calander -- don't just ignore it... Much better to repair on your schedule than in the middle of a project.. But the larger message is clear; it's worth keeping the motor area clear of sawdust... Even a tool that works AOK could have largely-hidden issues... The biggest risk is fire -- not really the tool itself, but how many leave jars of solvent hanging around?... Everyone checks their extinguisher every once in a while... right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted March 25, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2015 It doesn't really get too dusty in the cabinet...no dustier than the shop itself. The motor is isolated from all the debris by the dust chute...it's pretty clean in there. I'm not that worried about a fire, but yeah it would suck to have a jointer down when I head into a new build...not that anyone would be waiting on it but me. If I find some renewed patience once the bearing debacle is solved, I'll look into the switch issue. I have a buddy who's much better with motors/electric and I'll have him look at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post krtwood Posted March 25, 2015 Popular Post Report Share Posted March 25, 2015 I've had a Byrd head sitting around waiting for me to get around to installing it in my jointer for about a month now. Thanks for terrifying me. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted March 26, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 26, 2015 Sweet music...it is fixed. That bearing was definitely bad. Got a puller and swapped out for the old one. Now as long as that motor doesn't explode, I'm golden. Thanks for all the participation folks. All you guys troubleshooting with me was a huge help. PS...I hate you, Grizzly. Your eccentric bushings for aligning the tables is the stupidest engineering decision ever made. Ever. PPS...this head cuts like butter...despite its ridiculous amount of holes. You best watch yo ass now, curly maples. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted March 26, 2015 Report Share Posted March 26, 2015 ==>Now as long as that motor doesn't explode, I'm golden That.... and an insert shattering, being thrown back in you face and killing you... Those carbide inserts sure are brittle... I wonder is it's still illegal to use them on jointers in the EU? Oh, well... I'm sure you'll be fine... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Immortan D Posted March 26, 2015 Report Share Posted March 26, 2015 Well happy jointing then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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