Help me get a basic jump start on woodworking!


Econdron

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Alright I've got a welding, machining, and general fabrication shop that I've been running for the last 10 years or so. Probably 1/3 of my annual sales are making table frames, table legs, and other furniture frames for COMMERCIAL woodworking shops. So these are shops that are taking my frames, slapping a slab of wood on top and selling a finished product with much more profit than I make. So with things relatively slow right now, I'm looking to expand my capabilities/product line and jump in on this "finished product" market. 

 

So I'm wanting to start slow, and grow into it. I REALLY don't like the idea of welding, and sawdust so I'll be setting up a separate, preferably enclosed, space for the wood working. So for now, I'm looking for advice on the following:

 

1) I'll be starting with table tops. Coffee tables, kitchen tables, end tables, etc and probably benches to go with the kitchen tables. What options should I offer in terms of material? Reclaimed lumber seems to be the big hype with most of my customers. Opinions?

 

2) In addition to materials, what about the finish? What are some popular stains (or no stain), and what about polys? 

 

3) Remember space is limited right now, so what should I start with in terms of tooling? I have a small table saw, circular saw, jig saw, drill presses , and palm sander. Is a planer/jointer necessary? Is a belt sander helpful?

 

I know there are a million ways to answer these questions, so I'd like to know about the MOST popular materials and finishes that you guys have experienced. If any of you are in a commercial shop, it would help to know what your most common orders are. Yes, I could go and look at my customers and see what they offer, and that's a great start, but I would also like to add some unique options, or possibly offer something that the other shops have missed out on. I don't want to just follow these other shops, but also offer more "unique" options. And considering I make their steel bases, I feel as though price wise I can be very competitive. As for tooling, time is money here. So tools that will save a considerable amount of time are, in my opinion, necessary. 

 

I really appreciate any and all help!

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If I were in your situation, aiming mostly to make wooden tops for tables with steel undercarriages, I would want 1) a big tablesaw, 2) a good planer, and 3) a heavy-duty sanding system, perhaps a wood floor edge/finishing sander. This allows you to get one edge straight, make the board flat and parallel-faced, and smooth the glued-up panels quickly, with absolute minimum of machines. For a commercial enterprise, I think it is important to focus on a basic workflow for a particular process, tool up for that, then work in additional tools as you modify or add to the process. To do profiled edges on the table tops, add a shaper or large router. To to curves, add a bandsaw. To add wood aprons & legs, you might need to add specific tools for mortising and turning spindles. The shop expands to meet your needs as you grow.

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I think live edge wood table tops would look good with steel bases.

Just a thought. As 1/3 of your business now comes from making the bases for those that put the top on them, you will now be competing against them and will obviously loose that 1/3 of your business. Do you feel you can overcome that loss by doing the woodworking yourself?

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If I were in your situation, aiming mostly to make wooden tops for tables with steel undercarriages, I would want 1) a big tablesaw, 2) a good planer, and 3) a heavy-duty sanding system, perhaps a wood floor edge/finishing sander. This allows you to get one edge straight, make the board flat and parallel-faced, and smooth the glued-up panels quickly, with absolute minimum of machines. For a commercial enterprise, I think it is important to focus on a basic workflow for a particular process, tool up for that, then work in additional tools as you modify or add to the process. To do profiled edges on the table tops, add a shaper or large router. To to curves, add a bandsaw. To add wood aprons & legs, you might need to add specific tools for mortising and turning spindles. The shop expands to meet your needs as you grow.

The initial idea will be start fairly economically. Much of the equipment I use can be converted to woodworking equipment (i.e. drill presses, DA sanders, etc). I do really like the idea of that floor sander! Whenever I walk into my customers buildings, they always have a handful of guys with palm sanders sanding everything. Looks like a great time saver.

 

I think live edge wood table tops would look good with steel bases.

Just a thought. As 1/3 of your business now comes from making the bases for those that put the top on them, you will now be competing against them and will obviously loose that 1/3 of your business. Do you feel you can overcome that loss by doing the woodworking yourself?

That's an excellent question. They would definitely find out about me becoming a competitor eventually, so I would probably start slow enough they wouldn't even notice and see how things look. If I'm not getting much interest in the finished products, I scrap the idea and stick with what I do best. It's not a huge investment, especially starting out with minimal tooling.

 

Back to the original question, what are your recommendations on types of wood for the tops??

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The initial idea will be start fairly economically. Much of the equipment I use can be converted to woodworking equipment (i.e. drill presses, DA sanders, etc). I do really like the idea of that floor sander! Whenever I walk into my customers buildings, they always have a handful of guys with palm sanders sanding everything. Looks like a great time saver.

That's an excellent question. They would definitely find out about me becoming a competitor eventually, so I would probably start slow enough they wouldn't even notice and see how things look. If I'm not getting much interest in the finished products, I scrap the idea and stick with what I do best. It's not a huge investment, especially starting out with minimal tooling.

Back to the original question, what are your recommendations on types of wood for the tops??

Would the wood for the tops not be on a client by client basis? In other words would you just not build what each individual client wants. Maybe a better budget friendly way than having a bunch of tables in stock that possibly doesnt match up with your clients needs.

As for tools, i think starting with a jointer and planer is the way to go especially if you are doing table tops with lots of glue ups.

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Would the wood for the tops not be on a client by client basis? In other words would you just not build what each individual client wants. Maybe a better budget friendly way than having a bunch of tables in stock that possibly doesnt match up with your clients needs.

As for tools, i think starting with a jointer and planer is the way to go especially if you are doing table tops with lots of glue ups.

 

Yes, tables will all be custom order. But I'll need pictures to advertise, so I'll probably make a handful of table tops then just screw those to different bases and take pictures. In my experience, this kind of stuff sells MUCH faster if it's in stock and ready to ship, so the prototypes would probably sell relatively fast even if it's not what the customer wants exactly. They'd rather have it right away than wait 3-4 weeks.

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I would do your 'pre-made' tops in only two or three species to start out.Something like oak for a more rugged look, and walnut, cherry or some exotic species for a more 'elegant' appearance. Even if they are on the same base, and are the same form, just the difference in species will make them stand out emensely. Two bases and two tops gives you 4 completely different tables with minimum effort. Two more tops, identical to the first, but with edge profiles added, and now you have six unique table styles, with very little variation in workflow.

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If you are going into business making tops you need a good supply of cheap hardwood. Its not hard to spend 300$ or more for a 6 foot table top in lumber, before anything is even done to it. What species of wood you offer will likely be determined by what grows locally. Oak grows in most of the country and is usually pretty cheap, but in your area there might be better options. The cheapest wood will come from a small time company that is logging the trees themselves and drying them themselves. If you get into full production it may become economical to build your own kiln and dry the wood yourself. For starting off you will need to buy dry wood from a lumber yard.

You will need to buy a planer, you will also need to buy a jointer. You will need large machines. For making table tops you will need to face plane the boards before glue up. That means at absolute bare minimum you will need an 8" jointer and 10 or 12 will be considerably better. For a planer you will want full sized machines not portable ones. You will also want helical heads on both planer and jointer to save you considerable time in maintenance down the road.

The floor sander is a great idea. More typically this job is done with a wide belt sander or drum sander. To save time you would want large devices here. Things that can accommodate at least 36" if you go that route.

If you buy a new table saw, new planer and new jointer. You are looking at 7500 at a minimum and likely 10k to do it right. This I buying tools from grizzly which is perfect for this but not seen as the top of the line option. You will also need a dust collector, at least 2hp. You will need clamps, lots and lots of clamps. Start off with 10 pipe clamps. That should be enough to do one table top comfortably. You will want more when you start doing multiple glue ups at the same time. Throw in all the clamps, dust collection, incidentals like glue and sand paper, wood for your first couple of tops, maybe a work bench and you are looking at maybe 13k expected startup cost not counting whatever a floor sander costs. If you were planning on budgeting say half this number then you might want to reconsider this enterprise, these tools are needed to save you valuable time. It could be done with the tools you have now, but at 3 times the expected time and twice the lumber cost. You could also buy used tools and restore them. That would likely cut your tool cost in half, but you would need to be prepared to replace bearings and possibly reservice motors.

Good luck! Sounds like a promising venture. If you are making the bases you are more then halfway there really.

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A family-owned mill I buy from locally makes slab tops.  Like your situation, they work with a local metal work shop for metal bases. They saw and dry their own lumber.  it is not "reclaimed" per se but all the lumber comes from local street and yard trees so they call it "urban lumber" which helps them to market the same trend.  A lot of handwork goes into those tops.  They have a huge planer, but need to do a lot of surfacing by hand and joint most of the edges by hand.   Something to think about if you are using slabs.

 

On the flip side you can glue up tops out of cherry, walnut, maple or oak.  Those are the most common higher-end domestic furniture species and you get a nice variety of color.  Personally I like white oak more than red.  It is a little more subtle.

 

 

Room and Board is a retailer around here that sells a ton of this stuff.  Here is what they are doing.  

 

Here is a walnut slab table with a metal base:

http://www.roomandboard.com/catalog/dining/tables/chilton-72w-table-in-walnut

 

Here is a metal table with a top made from cherry boards

http://www.roomandboard.com/catalog/dining/tables/parsons-extension-tables

 

Thanks for the links! I wonder if your mill buys it's bases from me. If not, send them my info! Haha I'm right up the road from you in Lakemoor, IL (near Crystal Lake). 

 

Thanks for the info Apple Wood! Plan is to start with smaller used equipment. Will keep the initial investment down, and resale value SHOULD be 100% or more if I shop around. $15k is within my limits for initial investment costs, but I'm not going to go and spend that amount without a guaranteed return on the investment. As far as I know, the market for this type of furniture is flooded with companies trying to start out, and everyone is just buying from the larger, more established companies. I'd prefer to dip my feet in this instead dive right in. I got kids to put through college!

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The mill is horigan urban forest products in Lincolnwood.   I believe they but their metal bases from a shop in Skokie but I could be wrong.  But i do want to build a side board that sits on a base made out of square tubing, if I ever get around to it I will get in touch.  

 

http://horiganufp.com/index.php

 

 

http://horiganufp.com/

Email me directly if you do get to it. Email is Evan@econwelding.com. I'll give you a good price!

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